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UF Philosophy Corner - Ethics by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 08:21:28
  In order: by werehatrack2008-10-21 08:35:19
    I like all but the first. by tallastro2008-10-21 08:48:31
      Could there ever be a right by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 08:53:44
        Yes, I think so. by tallastro2008-10-21 09:02:17
          I'm not clear on one thing. by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 09:07:59
            I believe werehatrack's claim is that by bitflipper2008-10-21 09:34:39
              Disagree. by werehatrack2008-10-21 09:55:55
                Sure it is by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:11:18
                  Is that a right though, or merely a universal by subbywan2008-10-21 10:13:34
                    What is the difference between by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:27:05
                      No, because "violation" is subjective. by subbywan2008-10-21 10:52:18
                        Sometimes, though, you don't by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:56:20
                          I wanted to get away from the human examples by subbywan2008-10-21 10:59:44
                            O-kay, but it still begs the question by bitflipper 2008-10-21 11:20:43
To whom can the prey appeal, when the predator strikes? Your claim would seem to be that the prey has no right to life, because there is no court to which it can appeal when that right is threatened. And yet the prey will fight most vigorously to hang on to that non-existent right.

Similarly for people in a society--when our right to live is threatened, we will fight to defend it. When our freedom is threatened, we will fight for it. Every example I've mentioned from history was redressed with war before it has been brought before the courts.

It seems, then, that a right is not defined by what the law will eventually seek to redress, but by what people are willing to fight for in order to defend, be that fight through the courts and the law or by force of arms when the law no longer suffices. So a right, it seems, must be defined by the struggle for its defense, be that among humans, or among animals.
[ Reply ]
                              There isn't an appeal by subbywan2008-10-21 11:25:20
                                Which is precisely why by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:33:46
                                Which is exactly why I wouldn't :) by subbywan2008-10-21 11:38:55
                                Of course it can by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:47:55
                                Because if it can be taken away, it's conditional by subbywan2008-10-21 11:52:24
                                But a right does not guarantee outcome by bitflipper2008-10-21 12:08:10
                                Then it's not a right. by subbywan2008-10-21 12:32:51
                                Precisely. by bitflipper2008-10-21 12:51:28
                                It does only apply to a few. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:14:48
                                History has demonstrated by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:31:32
                                Exactly. What history has demonstrated by bitflipper2008-10-21 13:36:04
                                Rights can't be taken away. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:45:49
                                Then we come back to by bitflipper2008-10-21 13:52:16
                                Which I argue is wishful thinking. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:59:29
                                Then rights exist by dint of those same by bitflipper2008-10-21 14:16:03
                                Nope. i made no such claim by subbywan2008-10-21 14:30:24
                                I think we're dealing with by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 12:52:15
                                Human and societal behaviour and norms. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:16:58
                                Then what is your right to life? by bitflipper2008-10-21 11:41:40
                                I don't have a right to life. by subbywan2008-10-21 11:47:02
                                That would mean, then by bitflipper2008-10-21 11:56:40
                                I will defend myself too, up to and including by subbywan2008-10-21 12:34:25
                                But you would do so in the absence of society, too by bitflipper2008-10-21 12:58:17
                                No. That merely makes it an instinct. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:21:26
                                US citizens *do* have a right to life by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:34:17
                                If you can take it away, it's not a right by subbywan2008-10-21 13:39:51
                                And that's where I disagree by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:41:47
                                I thought you prefaced the need for a soul by subbywan2008-10-21 13:44:49
                                Maybe. by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:49:15
                                fair dinkum. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:51:06
                                It is not that your brother has a greater right by bitflipper2008-10-21 13:50:01
                                Um, the laws are *not* written to apply evenly. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:53:42
                                Actually, they *do* have the right to marry, by bitflipper2008-10-21 14:07:54
                                Because the state is involved there. by subbywan2008-10-21 14:39:47

 

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