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UF Philosophy Corner - Ethics by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 08:21:28
  In order: by werehatrack2008-10-21 08:35:19
    I like all but the first. by tallastro2008-10-21 08:48:31
      Could there ever be a right by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 08:53:44
        Yes, I think so. by tallastro2008-10-21 09:02:17
          I'm not clear on one thing. by MatthewDBA 2008-10-21 09:07:59
You state that you agree with all of werehatrack's replies except the first. In particular, I asked, "Can there exist purely internal rights (rights which have no basis except in the structure of a society)?" Werehatrack answered "Yes, and this is the only context in which they exist in fact." (emphasis added)

On the one hand, you appear to have agreed with that statement (at least, you didn't explicitly disagree); on the other, you appear to agree with the statement that there could be a right "so widespread (perhaps over time, or between societies) that it could be called an external/universal right." The two statements appear to conflict; how do you reconcile them?

[ Reply ]
            I believe werehatrack's claim is that by bitflipper2008-10-21 09:34:39
              Disagree. by werehatrack2008-10-21 09:55:55
                What leads you to believe that by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 09:59:15
                  Rights are consensual. No consensus = no rights. by werehatrack2008-10-21 10:08:46
                    That's a matter of definition, then? by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 10:11:23
                      Werehatrack and I are pretty close on this one. by tallastro2008-10-21 10:27:08
                Sure it is by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:11:18
                  Is that a right though, or merely a universal by subbywan2008-10-21 10:13:34
                    What is the difference between by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:27:05
                      Perhaps a right is by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 10:36:49
                        I'm amenable to that by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:50:41
                      No, because "violation" is subjective. by subbywan2008-10-21 10:52:18
                        Sometimes, though, you don't by bitflipper2008-10-21 10:56:20
                          I wanted to get away from the human examples by subbywan2008-10-21 10:59:44
                            O-kay, but it still begs the question by bitflipper2008-10-21 11:20:43
                              There isn't an appeal by subbywan2008-10-21 11:25:20
                                Which is precisely why by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:33:46
                                Which is exactly why I wouldn't :) by subbywan2008-10-21 11:38:55
                                Of course it can by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:47:55
                                Because if it can be taken away, it's conditional by subbywan2008-10-21 11:52:24
                                But a right does not guarantee outcome by bitflipper2008-10-21 12:08:10
                                Then it's not a right. by subbywan2008-10-21 12:32:51
                                Precisely. by bitflipper2008-10-21 12:51:28
                                It does only apply to a few. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:14:48
                                History has demonstrated by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:31:32
                                Exactly. What history has demonstrated by bitflipper2008-10-21 13:36:04
                                Rights can't be taken away. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:45:49
                                Then we come back to by bitflipper2008-10-21 13:52:16
                                Which I argue is wishful thinking. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:59:29
                                Then rights exist by dint of those same by bitflipper2008-10-21 14:16:03
                                Nope. i made no such claim by subbywan2008-10-21 14:30:24
                                I think we're dealing with by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 12:52:15
                                Human and societal behaviour and norms. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:16:58
                                Then what is your right to life? by bitflipper2008-10-21 11:41:40
                                I don't have a right to life. by subbywan2008-10-21 11:47:02
                                That would mean, then by bitflipper2008-10-21 11:56:40
                                I will defend myself too, up to and including by subbywan2008-10-21 12:34:25
                                But you would do so in the absence of society, too by bitflipper2008-10-21 12:58:17
                                No. That merely makes it an instinct. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:21:26
                                US citizens *do* have a right to life by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:34:17
                                If you can take it away, it's not a right by subbywan2008-10-21 13:39:51
                                And that's where I disagree by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:41:47
                                I thought you prefaced the need for a soul by subbywan2008-10-21 13:44:49
                                Maybe. by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 13:49:15
                                fair dinkum. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:51:06
                                It is not that your brother has a greater right by bitflipper2008-10-21 13:50:01
                                Um, the laws are *not* written to apply evenly. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:53:42
                                Actually, they *do* have the right to marry, by bitflipper2008-10-21 14:07:54
                                Because the state is involved there. by subbywan2008-10-21 14:39:47
                        Why should a right imply by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 10:58:57
                          Because without it, it means nothing. by subbywan2008-10-21 11:00:28
                            In what sense? by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:01:02
                              What is a "right" without something to back it up? by subbywan2008-10-21 11:03:57
                                "Useful" for what? by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:08:06
                                You haven't demonstrated that it is though by subbywan2008-10-21 11:10:11
                                As I posted elsewhere: by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:13:25
                                Isn't that rather the point of philosophy? by subbywan2008-10-21 11:15:16
                                In a way. by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:23:01
                                That is true. by subbywan2008-10-21 11:27:17
                                Which again gets back to by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:35:51
                                Present what you have. by subbywan2008-10-21 11:40:29
                                What I have is primarily definitional by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 11:47:08
                                What about those without senses then? by subbywan2008-10-21 11:53:47
                                Are you saying that by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 12:02:56
                                I'm questioning your statement of by subbywan2008-10-21 12:39:53
                                I don't see where I mentioned senses by MatthewDBA2008-10-21 12:47:10
                                No, I can't. by subbywan2008-10-21 13:24:11
              I wouldn't say inherent. by tallastro2008-10-21 10:20:48

 

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