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UF Philosophy Corner by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 08:01:34
  Yes. by bitflipper2008-08-22 08:07:39
    Would you say by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 08:33:13
      Actually, your interaction with the painting... by bitflipper2008-08-22 08:54:55
        Which depends on by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 08:59:57
          "Equivalent?" Unlikely. But certainly correlative. by bitflipper2008-08-22 09:14:52
            Exactly by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 09:20:25
              How certain do I need to be? by bitflipper2008-08-22 09:34:25
                I think it is by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 09:39:59
                  What do you mean by "really similar"? by bitflipper2008-08-22 10:06:51
                    I'm asking whether by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 10:17:31
                      :grin: You *know* what correlation means in the... by bitflipper2008-08-22 10:56:06
                        The problem I have with that is by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 11:00:35
                          So, your claim is that I *can't* take measurements by bitflipper2008-08-22 11:15:35
                            My claim is by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 11:44:07
                              Setting aside for the moment... by bitflipper 2008-08-22 12:04:26
that there are, in fact, measureable physiological changes that are very closely associated with thought and emotion, if you are reporting a change, then you are either stating that something has caused that change, or you you are stating that the change has no cause. I think we would both find it equally ridiculous to claim that there can be an effect without a cause, so, considering you to be a sensible fellow as I do, I assume you are claiming that something has caused a change in you. That cause is measureable, or it is not. If it is not, then that cause must still have been brought about by its own cause. And that cause must be measureable, or else it is not. We now have a reductio ad absurdum; somewhere along the line is a measurable cause.

Measureable causes have measureable effects. I'll grant, for the sake of argument, that they may also have unmeasureable effects, but if a cause can be measured, then at least one effect of that cause can be measured. Again, we have a reductio ad absurdum; somewhere along the line of effects propogated from the measurable cause that lies at the root of the change you report, will be at least one effect I can measure.

The only thing left is to determine whether or not there is a correlation between this effect or these effects that I can measure, and the change in experience you report. Since the effects propogate from the same root cause as the change you report, I maintain that such a correlation will exist and will be determinable.

I may not have named the right measurements to determine that correlation (although I think it would be found that I have named measurements that will show an appreciable correlation), but such measurements that will reveal the correspondence sought must be possible.
[ Reply ]
                                I am claiming by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:08:11
                                It must be measureable, or it is not measureable. by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:29:25
                                That's what I initially thought you meant by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:36:35
                                Every cause is, itself, an effect, with its own by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:54:48
                                I think where I disagree by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 13:00:10
                                Could very well be by bitflipper2008-08-22 13:56:52
                                I'm not quite sure of that by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 14:08:41

 

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