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UF Philosophy Corner by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 08:01:34
  Yes. by bitflipper2008-08-22 08:07:39
    Would you say by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 08:33:13
      Actually, your interaction with the painting... by bitflipper 2008-08-22 08:54:55
...is a very vague thing--entirely subjective in its nature--and therefore rather difficult to measure. You know that interaction has changed, but I don't, unless you tell me so. And, even then, all I have is anecdotal evidence. If I have nothing else, then that may suffice as a basis for me to later tell someone else, "MattDBA's interaction with the painting changed from one week to the next."

But, you see, I do have something else--something objectively measureable--to which I can correlate that change. I can measure you, and the change in you. Well, theoretically, at least. CAT scans, PQCT scans, PET scans, MRI scans, and the like, of your brain upon first beholding the painting and then upon beholding it a week later, along with measurements of the levels of neurotransmitters and their metabolites in your blood stream and in your CNS at the times of both events, would--presumably--reveal differing activities in your brain and nervous system which would correlate well with your reported differences in experience.

I like measurements; they give me objective data instead of subjective experiences. I can point to the differences in the two sets of measurements and say, "see here; you have changed, and thus your experience has changed." And I can show anybody who asks, precisely where and what the changes are. I can correlate those changes across many, many people who report similar changes in their subjective experiences of the painting. (Then I can get into a chicken-and-egg argument about whether the physiological changes result from a change in the experience, or whether the change in the experience is the result of the physiological changes. Meh. But, at the least, with objective data from measurements, I can pinpoint actual, observable changes, and that is something considerably more substantive than a reported subjective change in experience.)
[ Reply ]
        Which depends on by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 08:59:57
          "Equivalent?" Unlikely. But certainly correlative. by bitflipper2008-08-22 09:14:52
            Exactly by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 09:20:25
              How certain do I need to be? by bitflipper2008-08-22 09:34:25
                I think it is by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 09:39:59
                  What do you mean by "really similar"? by bitflipper2008-08-22 10:06:51
                    I'm asking whether by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 10:17:31
                      The idea of taking a few measurements and then by tallastro2008-08-22 10:34:10
                        Agreed; I was thinking by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 10:48:50
                          Perhaps they are by bitflipper2008-08-22 11:11:36
                            You could find a change in my body, probably by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 11:45:25
                              Of *course* it does by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:21:47
                                I don't know where you'd find me by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:27:17
                                We begin to touch on theological differences, here by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:39:27
                                That's an interesting idea by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:43:43
                                I just realized by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 13:03:49
                                See? by bitflipper2008-08-22 13:18:38
                                <Deleted><Deleted>2008-08-22 15:26:25
                                Moderated: Double Post (n/t) by Nea2008-08-22 15:26:37
                                woops. s/world or perceptions/world of perceptions (n/t) by bitflipper2008-08-22 13:19:27
                                Exactly. :grin: by bitflipper2008-08-22 13:05:06
                                Now that's *really* interesting by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 13:12:50
                                Anybody have something resembling empirical by tallastro2008-08-22 13:10:51
                                Not definitive, no. by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 13:13:17
                                Empirically speaking, I'm not aware of any by bitflipper2008-08-22 13:37:13
                      :grin: You *know* what correlation means in the... by bitflipper2008-08-22 10:56:06
                        The problem I have with that is by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 11:00:35
                          So, your claim is that I *can't* take measurements by bitflipper2008-08-22 11:15:35
                            My claim is by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 11:44:07
                              Which is different from my claim. by tallastro2008-08-22 11:58:23
                                Perhaps that's the next question then by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:05:18
                                Taken in order by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:18:14
                                I'm not certain why that last supposition by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:19:13
                              Setting aside for the moment... by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:04:26
                                I am claiming by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:08:11
                                It must be measureable, or it is not measureable. by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:29:25
                                That's what I initially thought you meant by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 12:36:35
                                Every cause is, itself, an effect, with its own by bitflipper2008-08-22 12:54:48
                                I think where I disagree by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 13:00:10
                                Could very well be by bitflipper2008-08-22 13:56:52
                                I'm not quite sure of that by MatthewDBA2008-08-22 14:08:41

 

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