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Alexis de Tocqueville on the U.S. election by DesertRat66 2008-01-15 09:04:28
"Above these [citizens] an immense tutelary power is elevated, which alone takes charge of assuring their enjoyments and watching over their fate. It is absolute, detailed, far-seeing, and mild. It would resemble paternal power if, like that, it had for its object to prepare men for manhood; but on the contrary, it seeks only to keep them fixed irrevocably in childhood; it likes citizens to enjoy themselves provided that they think only of enjoying themselves. It willingly works for their happiness; but it wants to be the unique agent and sole arbiter of that; it provides for their security, foresees and secures their needs, facilitates their pleasures, conducts their principal affairs, directs their industry, regulates their estates, divides their inheritances; can it not take away from them entirely the trouble of thinking and the pain of living? Subjection in small affairs manifests itself every day and makes itself felt without distinction by all citizens. It does not make them desperate, but it constantly thwarts them and brings them to renounce the use of their wills. Thus little by little, it extinguishes their spirits and enervates their souls."
[ Reply ]
  And they say nothing good came out of France... :P (n/t) by krikkert2008-01-15 09:15:40
  "Democracy in America" was required reading by lab rat2008-01-15 09:27:15
    Democracy in America was a newfangled thing by krikkert2008-01-15 09:30:02
      Bad krikkert!!! by lab rat2008-01-15 09:32:42
        What? It was the obvious response! by krikkert2008-01-15 09:33:58
          Yup, and red cowboys to boot! (n/t) by lab rat2008-01-15 09:38:42
            Commie Cowboys? (n/t) by psyop2008-01-15 09:47:58
              I hope so. (n/t) by lab rat2008-01-15 09:48:24
    Not here, but yes in college. by esbita2008-01-15 10:33:00
      Interesting. It was required in poli-sci 101 by lab rat2008-01-15 12:35:29
        You're gonna laugh. by esbita2008-01-15 13:14:18
          It's easier that way by subbywan2008-01-15 14:33:58
  I take it this isn't recent enough to by Peace_man2008-01-15 09:49:28
    de Tocqueville is 1700s. (n/t) by krikkert2008-01-15 09:53:21
    It is a warning by DesertRat662008-01-15 09:57:32
      Meet Mr. Harrison Bergeron (n/t) by lab rat2008-01-15 10:03:37
      Surrender of freedom to a tutelary power by Peace_man2008-01-15 10:22:49
        And you wonder why we're advocates... by esbita2008-01-15 10:33:24
          Yes. by Peace_man2008-01-15 10:40:54
            There is little benifit to a large government by joecrouse2008-01-15 10:57:47
              Wasn't that what the Roman Empire provided? by Peace_man2008-01-15 12:33:53
                And where to Govt initiatives come from? (n/t) by subbywan2008-01-15 14:05:02
                and look what happened to the Romans by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:21:00
                  Their government became corrupt. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:23:08
                    Your missing WHY it became corrupt by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:53:26
                      Are you willing to allow a corrupt government? by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:02:06
                        I do speak out against it as do many by joecrouse2008-01-15 15:11:43
                          Corruption is everywhere. It is NOT inherent by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:15:20
                            For very very small systems. by subbywan2008-01-15 15:15:55
                            no your right the coruption isnt in the system by joecrouse2008-01-15 15:20:46
                              That is correct. by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:27:30
                                no its still coruption. by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:31:51
            Judging from the world around us... by esbita2008-01-15 11:09:08
              I suspect we aren't likely to agree on this. by Peace_man2008-01-15 13:33:53
                Oil and water, yes. by esbita2008-01-15 13:56:19
                  Maybe we live in different worlds then. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:01:11
                    um, you mean like the recent posts you made by subbywan2008-01-15 14:02:35
                      You have me mistaken for someone else. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:21:34
                        Indeed I do not have you mistaken for someone else (n/t) by subbywan2008-01-15 14:22:59
                        I expect that they should be adults by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:24:13
                          You forgot egocentric (n/t) by subbywan2008-01-15 14:25:10
                            I thought all those things = egocentric. (n/t) by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:25:41
                              hrm. i'll have to consider that, but you may have by subbywan2008-01-15 14:29:07
                          I'm sorry to hear that this is your experience. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:26:29
                            No. too many people see this in too many by subbywan2008-01-15 14:28:34
                              Do I live in a better place than you? by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:33:48
                                You do not. by subbywan2008-01-15 14:35:04
                                Your glass may be half empty. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:41:56
                                My glass is very nearly full. by subbywan2008-01-15 14:45:02
                                I had no idea you were a police man. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:58:46
                                Which claim? by subbywan2008-01-15 15:03:28
                                Your claim that you stop people from taking by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:07:10
                                Yes, and I do by subbywan2008-01-15 15:10:07
                                Are there a lot of attempts to take what is yours? by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:19:53
                                a lot, no. But some, yes. by subbywan2008-01-15 15:26:50
                                What this thread needs is... by swisscheese2008-01-15 17:46:31
                                Every april 15th. (n/t) by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:32:14
                                For what could be would require by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:49:53
                                First 5 min of "Idiocracy" highlights that *well* (n/t) by subbywan2008-01-15 14:51:18
                                I really don't like that viewpoint. by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:04:25
                                I do see them as inevitable by joecrouse2008-01-15 15:10:22
                                Are you kidding? by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:24:26
                                There is plenty of work, by lheggland2008-01-15 15:30:28
                                That sucks. by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:44:20
                                The various Governments the people voted in by subbywan2008-01-15 15:46:18
                                Points WAY WAY WAY up this thread by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:35:37
                                No a good selective plauge would by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:34:26
                            You live in a rather small town by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:39:56
                              I live on an acreage. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:52:51
                                Um, you do realise that most of the modern world by subbywan2008-01-15 14:54:56
                                How and where I live demonstrates that by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:10:16
                                For now, yes. by subbywan2008-01-15 15:12:35
                                your sample group is to small and homgenous then. (n/t) by joecrouse2008-01-15 15:12:56
                                ok then you live in a MUCH smaller community by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:56:09
                                Just what do you consider a small town? by lheggland2008-01-15 15:13:56
                                3000 (roughly Havre De Grace sized) by joecrouse2008-01-15 15:20:06
                                IMO, those are not small towns. by lheggland2008-01-15 15:24:19
                                Not really gonna happen on the east coast till by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:37:00
                    Same world, but not all of us wear blinders. by esbita2008-01-15 15:56:26
                      Same in an italian neighborhood and for by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:40:00
            Jefferson put his faith in a robust free press by swisscheese2008-01-15 12:40:54
              That tells me why we need to ensure a by Peace_man2008-01-15 13:29:47
                Which only works when said press is responsible. by subbywan2008-01-15 14:07:02
                  How would you propose ensuring a responsible by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:25:08
                    I'd shoot irresponsible reports and editors. by subbywan2008-01-15 14:27:15
                      That sounds like something worth pushing for. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:37:03
                        I would. by subbywan2008-01-15 14:40:38
                          libel law is so overwhelming a club... by swisscheese2008-01-15 19:28:17
                        Readers. Perhaps a self induced by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:40:48
                    Id require news papers to be written on a by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:32:19
                    I'd start by limiting ownership concentration by swisscheese2008-01-15 19:16:49
                  NO WAY!! We are responsible by manatee2008-01-15 15:09:23
                    Common sense isn't. by subbywan2008-01-15 15:15:22
                      I applaud the rag sheets they are the ultimate by joecrouse2008-01-15 15:22:15
            Think of it from a Fred Brooks perspective by hobbs2008-01-15 13:22:25
              Please tell me how that explains the by Peace_man2008-01-15 13:26:50
                Beacuse, by lheggland2008-01-15 13:34:12
                  How is that again? by Peace_man2008-01-15 13:39:57
                    Large == inefficent by Sterling_Ag2008-01-15 13:53:23
                      You make no sense. by Peace_man2008-01-15 13:59:24
                        VERY much so. by subbywan2008-01-15 14:09:48
                          Share holders are different from voters. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:32:12
                            You're talking about only 1 type of shareholder by subbywan2008-01-15 14:35:49
                          Goverments have other concerns than effeiciency by swisscheese2008-01-15 19:52:05
                        As long as the shareholders stay happy by Sterling_Ag2008-01-15 14:12:57
                        Large companies take advantage of by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:19:03
                          If it is inefficient, it has to be because it is by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:47:54
                            Because not enough people give a damn by subbywan2008-01-15 15:54:26
                    The source of the revenue is the problem. by lheggland2008-01-15 14:00:39
                      The source of the revenue doesn't matter. by Peace_man2008-01-15 14:18:59
                        most stockholders do not get that involved with by subbywan2008-01-15 14:24:23
                          I have seen it get a lot worse since by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:13:35
                        What you're missing is that by Sterling_Ag2008-01-15 14:25:24
                          Good point! by Peace_man2008-01-15 15:50:34
                            And the government should provide by joecrouse2008-01-15 19:43:10
                Nope the theory is just fine.. by Sterling_Ag2008-01-15 13:45:48
                  Heh. Sounds like you have experienced by Peace_man2008-01-15 13:52:28
                    Not true at all. by lheggland2008-01-15 14:04:47
                    VERY not true. by joecrouse2008-01-15 14:43:21
                Because large government exists by hobbs2008-01-15 15:28:07

 

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