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Ordnance-Corner For UFies by DesertRat662007-07-27 10:45:40
  Why the gun is civilization by DesertRat662007-07-27 10:50:37
    So many things wrong with this -- every paragraph by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:01:19
      That makes absolutely no sense. by esbita2007-07-27 11:09:50
        I am pointing out the erroneous conclusion by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:28:50
          You're missing a critical difference. by leistico 2007-07-27 11:39:27
There is a huge, HUGE difference between the initiation of force and retaliatory force, a.k.a. self-defense. It is the thug, the criminal, the abberant who initiates force as a furtherance of their will, and it is the law-abiding citizen, the "average Joe", the victim of force who initiates self-defense as a means of preserving their own lives and property and self-soverignty.

Equating the two, as you often have in the past as well as in this case...saying that one is no better than the other, or either implicitly or explicitly stating that force is no means for dealing with force, illustrates a disdain for the sanctity of human life and the nature of human beings as rational creatures in possession of soverignty over their own existence.

I'm just sayin'.
[ Reply ]
            Thanks, you've summed it up. (n/t) by esbita2007-07-27 11:45:06
            They are equal in that they both harm someone. by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:46:41
              You're ignoring degree. (n/t) by esbita2007-07-27 11:48:21
                I'm not certain *degree* is the difference. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:03:10
                  Degree *is* a difference. by esbita2007-07-27 12:07:42
                    Good by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:09:10
                      That is your choice, and I respect that. by esbita2007-07-27 12:10:55
                        And also with you :-) by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:13:46
              You advocate a nanny-state by subbywan2007-07-27 11:48:22
                You call it nanny-state. I call it by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:51:17
                  Need a shovel to move that goalpost? (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 11:54:28
                  Yes. by subbywan2007-07-27 11:54:44
                    OK, smart guy. What exactly is it that defines by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:57:31
                      American Heritage Dictionary? by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:00:53
                        Don't seen anything in there about being nice ... (n/t) by subbywan2007-07-27 12:01:48
                          Nor about governments. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:03:02
                        Do you agree that record keeping and by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:02:53
                          Why does that purpose have to be by subbywan2007-07-27 12:03:54
                            Nice ........ by aix tom2007-07-27 12:06:22
                              It never was :P by subbywan2007-07-27 12:07:32
                            I asked whether he agreed with the by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:07:35
                              You don't HAVE to agree. by subbywan2007-07-27 12:09:07
                                I asked if he agreed with it. I'll ask you the sam by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:17:25
                                Again, you're operation on a flawed idea of by subbywan2007-07-27 12:20:31
                                What is "pinnacle of civilization"? by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:21:19
                                Civilization has a pinnacle? by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:22:59
                                Fundamental question for you, Peace... by leistico2007-07-27 12:23:58
                                I'm certainly capable of changing my by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:32:22
                                Funny, how a source was provided. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:34:26
                              What's your definition then? by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:09:31
                              I agree with that definition, yes. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:13:08
                                I think he is using the 'european' version by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:24:56
                                That's History. 'mericans are short-sighted in by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:27:39
                            The Aztecs come to mind, for example. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:07:40
                          Nice try. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:04:00
                          "Red tape" by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:06:03
                            Is that then what you consider the measure by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:09:41
                              He already gave you the definition. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:11:52
                              You appeared to be proposing by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:16:29
                            Red tape is what happens with nannystates by subbywan2007-07-27 12:10:56
                      What defines "pornography"? by subbywan2007-07-27 12:00:56
                        Let's try a different direction then. by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:06:30
                          Care to provide answers? (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:08:23
                          *hands you an mp3 player in recording mode* by esbita2007-07-27 12:10:09
                            There's NEVER a point by SnArL2007-07-27 12:33:14
                              Is that like: by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:37:25
                                Yup. Thank you Baldrick. by SnArL2007-07-27 12:49:49
                                I have a computer network all around me. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:52:12
                                :D (n/t) by SnArL2007-07-27 12:54:17
                          Civilization has a purpose? by subbywan2007-07-27 12:13:19
                            Kind of like by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:17:28
                            Civilization is a goal worth aiming for. by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:25:09
                              Why is that goal worth aiming for? by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:29:27
                              You first. by esbita2007-07-27 12:31:02
                                But not doing so makes it SO much easier to move by SnArL2007-07-27 12:34:35
                              I don't know if I can name a specific culture by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:36:14
                                One problem with that: by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:42:22
                              So now you advocate feudalism? by subbywan2007-07-27 12:37:30
                  What you call civilization has repeatedly shown by DesertRat662007-07-27 11:56:02
                    Only if the assumptions for the syllogism are by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:01:19
                      But how can you be sure both are correct? by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:05:58
                        Yes, it has been. During the medical examination by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:06:56
                          wouldn't a draft by subbywan2007-07-27 12:16:22
                            Not if the nurse is eye candy. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:17:32
                              *resolutely makes no comment whatsoever* by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:21:14
                                Well, she was. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:22:04
                    I think you have misunderstood what I call by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:14:59
                      Subby put it nicely. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:16:59
                        No, unwilling. by esbita2007-07-27 12:24:14
                          Point taken. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:26:08
                      Perhaps if we all knew what your definition of by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:41:34
                      You know what MY goal is? What *I* aim for? by SnArL2007-07-27 12:47:02
                        That's just silly! by Peace_man2007-07-27 13:06:52
                          No harder than me being able to fly by SnArL2007-07-27 13:19:06
                  And I call it faschism by veran2007-07-27 15:33:02
              My valuation of human life... by leistico2007-07-27 12:18:00
            I'm a bit uncomfortable by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 11:56:45
              You should really read the article by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:03:07
                a succinct summary of the issue: by plblark2007-07-27 12:17:53
                  And I can speak from experience by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:24:12
                  It does say much about the adverse effects by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:40:07
                    Hint by plblark2007-07-27 12:43:08
                      Experience has shown that this by Peace_man2007-07-27 13:10:07
                        That is why we limit the circumstances by ManiacJoe2007-07-27 13:19:01
                    Tried and failed by subbywan2007-07-27 12:45:42
                      Germany limited teh number of guns, too. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:47:02
                    There is no evidence for this by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:47:31
                      It is impossible. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:50:06
                        I didn't ask you :P by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:54:45
                          Doesn't keep me from answering. :P by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:59:28
                            Oh I know it's impossible by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:08:00
                              A gun doesn't even require metal to work. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:10:08
                                Wodden guns shouldn't last long enough by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:13:30
                                If it is too expensive to get a gun, a criminal by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:15:59
                                No no 'guns are bad' by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:23:13
                                Ever read the Nightwatch novels by Pratchett? by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:27:18
                                Hasn't everyone :) (n/t) by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:34:25
                                My brother hasn't. ;) (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:39:21
                                Funny how it touches from both directions. by vetitice2007-07-27 15:50:50
                      As you said: No effect on violence. by Peace_man2007-07-27 13:13:25
                        Back that up with numbers, please. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:16:41
                        Does not follow by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:19:42
                        Once again your abuse of 'logic' fails by DesertRat662007-07-27 15:47:33
              The repercussions are a whole other matter... by leistico2007-07-27 12:10:10
                The reason I feel uncomfortable about by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:44:28
                  You miss the point: by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:48:24
                    My point is by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:50:04
                      And everybody has taken that point. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:51:15
                        Okay. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:53:38
                          Yes, but someplace else. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:54:55
                            The problem with subthreads by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:56:50
                              Same here. :| (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:00:15

 

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