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Ordnance-Corner For UFies by DesertRat662007-07-27 10:45:40
  Why the gun is civilization by DesertRat662007-07-27 10:50:37
    So many things wrong with this -- every paragraph by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:01:19
      That makes absolutely no sense. by esbita2007-07-27 11:09:50
        I am pointing out the erroneous conclusion by Peace_man 2007-07-27 11:28:50
by exaggerating it. If violent acts are decreased in numbers by making violence easier, then they should be decreased even more by being even easier.

I did not say it was possible to do - although if it were, would you advocate it?
[ Reply ]
          False assumption by subbywan2007-07-27 11:31:12
          You're missing a critical difference. by leistico2007-07-27 11:39:27
            Thanks, you've summed it up. (n/t) by esbita2007-07-27 11:45:06
            They are equal in that they both harm someone. by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:46:41
              You're ignoring degree. (n/t) by esbita2007-07-27 11:48:21
                I'm not certain *degree* is the difference. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:03:10
                  Degree *is* a difference. by esbita2007-07-27 12:07:42
                    Good by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:09:10
                      That is your choice, and I respect that. by esbita2007-07-27 12:10:55
                        And also with you :-) by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:13:46
              You advocate a nanny-state by subbywan2007-07-27 11:48:22
                You call it nanny-state. I call it by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:51:17
                  Need a shovel to move that goalpost? (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 11:54:28
                  Yes. by subbywan2007-07-27 11:54:44
                    OK, smart guy. What exactly is it that defines by Peace_man2007-07-27 11:57:31
                      American Heritage Dictionary? by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:00:53
                        Don't seen anything in there about being nice ... (n/t) by subbywan2007-07-27 12:01:48
                          Nor about governments. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:03:02
                        Do you agree that record keeping and by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:02:53
                          Why does that purpose have to be by subbywan2007-07-27 12:03:54
                            Nice ........ by aix tom2007-07-27 12:06:22
                              It never was :P by subbywan2007-07-27 12:07:32
                            I asked whether he agreed with the by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:07:35
                              You don't HAVE to agree. by subbywan2007-07-27 12:09:07
                                I asked if he agreed with it. I'll ask you the sam by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:17:25
                                Again, you're operation on a flawed idea of by subbywan2007-07-27 12:20:31
                                What is "pinnacle of civilization"? by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:21:19
                                Civilization has a pinnacle? by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:22:59
                                Fundamental question for you, Peace... by leistico2007-07-27 12:23:58
                                I'm certainly capable of changing my by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:32:22
                                Funny, how a source was provided. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:34:26
                              What's your definition then? by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:09:31
                              I agree with that definition, yes. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:13:08
                                I think he is using the 'european' version by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:24:56
                                That's History. 'mericans are short-sighted in by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:27:39
                            The Aztecs come to mind, for example. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:07:40
                          Nice try. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:04:00
                          "Red tape" by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:06:03
                            Is that then what you consider the measure by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:09:41
                              He already gave you the definition. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:11:52
                              You appeared to be proposing by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:16:29
                            Red tape is what happens with nannystates by subbywan2007-07-27 12:10:56
                      What defines "pornography"? by subbywan2007-07-27 12:00:56
                        Let's try a different direction then. by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:06:30
                          Care to provide answers? (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:08:23
                          *hands you an mp3 player in recording mode* by esbita2007-07-27 12:10:09
                            There's NEVER a point by SnArL2007-07-27 12:33:14
                              Is that like: by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:37:25
                                Yup. Thank you Baldrick. by SnArL2007-07-27 12:49:49
                                I have a computer network all around me. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:52:12
                                :D (n/t) by SnArL2007-07-27 12:54:17
                          Civilization has a purpose? by subbywan2007-07-27 12:13:19
                            Kind of like by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:17:28
                            Civilization is a goal worth aiming for. by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:25:09
                              Why is that goal worth aiming for? by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:29:27
                              You first. by esbita2007-07-27 12:31:02
                                But not doing so makes it SO much easier to move by SnArL2007-07-27 12:34:35
                              I don't know if I can name a specific culture by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:36:14
                                One problem with that: by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:42:22
                              So now you advocate feudalism? by subbywan2007-07-27 12:37:30
                  What you call civilization has repeatedly shown by DesertRat662007-07-27 11:56:02
                    Only if the assumptions for the syllogism are by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:01:19
                      But how can you be sure both are correct? by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:05:58
                        Yes, it has been. During the medical examination by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:06:56
                          wouldn't a draft by subbywan2007-07-27 12:16:22
                            Not if the nurse is eye candy. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:17:32
                              *resolutely makes no comment whatsoever* by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:21:14
                                Well, she was. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:22:04
                    I think you have misunderstood what I call by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:14:59
                      Subby put it nicely. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:16:59
                        No, unwilling. by esbita2007-07-27 12:24:14
                          Point taken. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:26:08
                      Perhaps if we all knew what your definition of by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:41:34
                      You know what MY goal is? What *I* aim for? by SnArL2007-07-27 12:47:02
                        That's just silly! by Peace_man2007-07-27 13:06:52
                          No harder than me being able to fly by SnArL2007-07-27 13:19:06
                  And I call it faschism by veran2007-07-27 15:33:02
              My valuation of human life... by leistico2007-07-27 12:18:00
            I'm a bit uncomfortable by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 11:56:45
              You should really read the article by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:03:07
                a succinct summary of the issue: by plblark2007-07-27 12:17:53
                  And I can speak from experience by DesertRat662007-07-27 12:24:12
                  It does say much about the adverse effects by Peace_man2007-07-27 12:40:07
                    Hint by plblark2007-07-27 12:43:08
                      Experience has shown that this by Peace_man2007-07-27 13:10:07
                        That is why we limit the circumstances by ManiacJoe2007-07-27 13:19:01
                    Tried and failed by subbywan2007-07-27 12:45:42
                      Germany limited teh number of guns, too. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:47:02
                    There is no evidence for this by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:47:31
                      It is impossible. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:50:06
                        I didn't ask you :P by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 12:54:45
                          Doesn't keep me from answering. :P by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:59:28
                            Oh I know it's impossible by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:08:00
                              A gun doesn't even require metal to work. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:10:08
                                Wodden guns shouldn't last long enough by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:13:30
                                If it is too expensive to get a gun, a criminal by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:15:59
                                No no 'guns are bad' by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:23:13
                                Ever read the Nightwatch novels by Pratchett? by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:27:18
                                Hasn't everyone :) (n/t) by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:34:25
                                My brother hasn't. ;) (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:39:21
                                Funny how it touches from both directions. by vetitice2007-07-27 15:50:50
                      As you said: No effect on violence. by Peace_man2007-07-27 13:13:25
                        Back that up with numbers, please. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:16:41
                        Does not follow by hyzenthlay2007-07-27 13:19:42
                        Once again your abuse of 'logic' fails by DesertRat662007-07-27 15:47:33
              The repercussions are a whole other matter... by leistico2007-07-27 12:10:10
                The reason I feel uncomfortable about by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:44:28
                  You miss the point: by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:48:24
                    My point is by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:50:04
                      And everybody has taken that point. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:51:15
                        Okay. by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:53:38
                          Yes, but someplace else. by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 12:54:55
                            The problem with subthreads by MatthewDBA2007-07-27 12:56:50
                              Same here. :| (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-27 13:00:15

 

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