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Thyestean feast in Iraq? by DesertRat66 2007-07-10 07:23:48
First of RetiQlum2, you are not allowed to click on any of the following links until you have secured all loose breakable or boomy objects and removed them from the room. I advise a long walk bfore posting any replies for you as well. Second if you have a weak constitution DO NOT follow the links.

Michael Yon's Baqubah update

Victor Davis Hansen's editorial on the news
What is striking about all this savagery—whether with the filmed beheadings of Westerners in Iraq to the recent flaming Johnny Storm human torch at Glasgow, screaming epithets as he sought to engulf bystanders and ignite his canisters — is the absolute silence of the West, either distracted by Paris and i-Phones or suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome and obsessed with Guantanamo.

It is hard to recall an enemy so savage and yet one so largely ignored by rich affluent and distracted elites as the radical jihadists, as we have to evoke everything from mythology to comic books to find analogies to their extra-human viciousness.

For a self-congratulatory culture issuing moral lectures on everything from global warming to the dangers of smoking, the silence of the West toward the primordial horror from Gaza to Anbar is, well, horrific in its own way as well...
I couldn't agree more.
[ Reply ]
  How DARE we ignore all this by by hadji2007-07-10 07:33:05
    Don't get the news much? (n/t) by DesertRat662007-07-10 07:34:48
      Don't clarify your points much? (n/t) by hadji2007-07-10 07:36:30
        Nevermind, it's not worth it. by hadji2007-07-10 07:43:01
          I figured you at least skimmed headlines by DesertRat662007-07-10 08:25:01
            That post is useless. by hadji2007-07-10 08:36:21
              Am thinking the "absolute silence..." by esbita2007-07-10 09:33:08
                General rule of debating: by AndyA2007-07-10 09:36:52
                  Another general rule of debating: by esbita2007-07-10 09:41:46
                Did not read the link. by hadji2007-07-10 09:47:01
                  How is it not specific? by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:50:05
                    I am, in fact, hearing quite a lot about it. by hadji2007-07-10 09:56:17
                  If you won't read the link, don't debate. by esbita2007-07-10 09:54:38
                    You're right. by hadji2007-07-10 10:04:09
                      PFB. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:06:55
                        Yes, and now it really is time for me to go. (n/t) by hadji2007-07-10 10:07:50
                The article says by jeff_uk2007-07-10 09:52:05
                  Not that hadji would've known. by esbita2007-07-10 10:02:57
                    Gawd. Now *I'm* being ambiguous. by esbita2007-07-10 10:04:07
                    Yes he could, DR66 quoted that part here..... (n/t) by jeff_uk2007-07-10 10:05:00
                      But no, that's not what DR meant. by hadji2007-07-10 10:06:59
                      Quoted what, where? (n/t) by esbita2007-07-10 10:09:01
                        In the TLP by hadji2007-07-10 10:21:18
                          Read the article. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:31:47
                            But the claim of 'absolute silence' was general, by jeff_uk2007-07-10 10:32:52
                              It puts the quotes into the approproate by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:36:41
                          Nice cherry-picking. by esbita2007-07-10 10:32:52
                            There are times when cherry-picking is valid. by hadji2007-07-10 11:33:42
                              Did you apply your skills of scrutiny by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 12:23:37
                                My agenda is to argue the following points. by hadji2007-07-10 12:39:17
                                So, you are after DR66, and not after the article by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 12:43:40
                                To be more precise, I'm after the TLP. by hadji2007-07-10 12:50:08
                                You didn't even read the article you criticize. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 12:56:48
                                I've read both, and I've replied accordingly. (n/t by hadji2007-07-10 13:10:25
                              Hardly. Without reading the context... by esbita2007-07-10 12:26:21
                                Evening news has a duty to gather ratings. by hadji2007-07-10 12:31:42
                                Will you read the article? by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 12:35:00
                                If a scrap of rhetorical license by esbita2007-07-10 12:41:59
                                Chalk it up as you please. by hadji2007-07-10 12:46:41
                                And what, pray tell, are you teaching here? by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 12:51:54
                                I've read the articles, and I've seen nothing by hadji2007-07-10 13:04:26
                                Oh, and I'm constantly hearing that by hadji2007-07-10 13:09:32
                                To put it as politely as I can: by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 15:04:06
                                Ecellent. Thank you. (n/t) by hadji2007-07-10 15:05:31
                                *ahem* So now, I've read the article. by hadji2007-07-10 13:43:21
                                Others targeted that already. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 14:01:08
                                I never saw a valid argument against me. by hadji2007-07-10 14:09:27
                                See here. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 14:17:09
                                Your concession is accepted. (n/t) by hadji2007-07-10 14:25:11
                                Concession? by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 14:40:50
                                See here. by hadji2007-07-10 14:44:06
                                Ah, the latter part. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 14:58:09
                                And have I mentioned that the scrap of by hadji2007-07-10 13:22:11
                                Is there reason to believe that possibly by Peace_man2007-07-10 13:01:15
                                If you look back a few days by DesertRat662007-07-10 13:09:32
                                And in the article states that someone by Peace_man2007-07-10 13:15:02
                                More the general by DesertRat662007-07-10 13:25:45
                                I hear quite a bit about the atrocities by hadji2007-07-10 13:32:24
                                Where from by DesertRat662007-07-10 13:38:22
                                Various sources, but primarily NPR. by hadji2007-07-10 13:58:29
                                You make a perfect counter example by DesertRat662007-07-10 14:17:07
                                I would not dispute the claim of by hadji2007-07-10 14:23:29
                                It is also no new revelation that mainstream by hadji2007-07-10 14:32:56
                                It's also not a new one that by DesertRat662007-07-10 14:50:51
                                "While there may not be 'Absolute Silence' . . ." by hadji2007-07-10 14:54:46
                                You seem to have an unhealthy fascination by Peace_man2007-07-10 13:54:32
                                Having seen what extremists can do up close and by DesertRat662007-07-10 14:03:33
                                Now, that's actually the sorta response I'm lookin by esbita2007-07-10 13:22:49
                                What you seem to be missing is that the summary by hadji2007-07-10 13:29:50
                                You couldn't have "known" that at the time by esbita2007-07-10 13:41:06
                                It was a reasonable guess. And it was right. (n/t by hadji2007-07-10 13:47:51
                                But you might not have been right! and arguing by jeff_uk2007-07-10 14:01:35
                                Kinda like Bush invading Iraq in the first place, by hadji2007-07-10 14:06:24
            The question that maybe needs to be asked is, by Peace_man2007-07-10 08:43:02
              That is either an excellent idea or a catastrophic by hadji2007-07-10 08:48:09
                Given the tensions that are there already: by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 08:51:15
                A gun is the equalizer. by Peace_man2007-07-10 08:53:10
                  Nice. Except a gun, and working as a cohesive, by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 08:57:53
                  "Never give a man a gun unless you know by hadji2007-07-10 08:58:10
                    A very valid point. (n/t) by Classic_jon2007-07-10 08:59:07
                    Hmm. I find myself in very unfamiliar territory by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:10:42
                      I doubt you'll get backup here. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:14:29
                        Well, of course not! by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:17:18
                          How do you know that civilian X by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:20:04
                            Contact local tribal leaders in order to by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:36:24
                              I don't have to show why "my" way is better by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:44:01
                                By saying that what I propose is bad by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:52:43
                                Where did I assert that doing nothing is better? by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:57:49
                                PFB. Now go away or I will taunt you again! (n/t) by Peace_man2007-07-10 10:06:21
                                Hm, rabbit stew tonight.. (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:12:59
                          The problem is, how do you differentiate between by hadji2007-07-10 09:27:53
                            Stop giving me my favourite arguments back! by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:44:29
                              Or it would just result in the bloodiest by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:47:26
                                Actually, sunnis and shiites used to get along. by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:59:39
                                Ya, they get along. by lheggland2007-07-10 10:28:53
                                Read much? by Peace_man2007-07-10 10:41:08
                                In Iraq? by lheggland2007-07-10 10:58:35
                                That reply does not indicate any by Peace_man2007-07-10 11:17:56
                                I did read them. by lheggland2007-07-10 11:27:15
                                I choose to read the articles I linked to. by Peace_man2007-07-10 12:06:37
                            You don't by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:47:11
                      The point is moot by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:19:01
              What is so bad about them viewing the by Classic_jon2007-07-10 08:57:30
                Most households in Iraq are already armed by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:03:38
                Being seen as just another tribe does not by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:08:12
                  I think you are bypassing the meat of the point by Classic_jon2007-07-10 09:19:06
                    If anything, it shows that the troops by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:22:59
                    How accepted can they be, really? by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:31:05
                      How do you know that the acceptance by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:35:12
                        His story is very well known. by Peace_man2007-07-10 09:37:41
                          Yes, it is unusual to get all the Arabian tribes by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 09:45:26
                      You are seeing part of what the point is by Classic_jon2007-07-10 09:46:25
                        That is a good description of another way by Peace_man2007-07-10 10:03:11
  I know that I can be a bit contentious. by RetiQlum22007-07-10 07:50:53
    OK, you were right. by RetiQlum22007-07-10 08:16:29
      It was more like friendly advice by DesertRat662007-07-10 08:21:37
        F4 all that! by RetiQlum22007-07-10 08:26:43
  And just think... by Phoon2007-07-10 08:21:31
    Is that your personal opinion? (n/t) by Classic_jon2007-07-10 08:22:50
      I ask because Afganistan is a U.N. mission by Classic_jon2007-07-10 08:38:33
    Hmm.. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 08:24:51
      Mazari Sharif, Kandahar, Tora Bora... by Phoon2007-07-10 08:28:51
        Your premise is wrong. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 08:35:18
    Wow. It hought you were uninformed before. by RetiQlum22007-07-10 08:30:49
    ITYM "anywhere ANYMORE if we had..." by kelli2172007-07-10 08:38:54
  Of course the answer is to just kill 'em all... by kelli2172007-07-10 08:27:20
    I couldn't read it all. by RetiQlum22007-07-10 08:42:53
      PFB by altordwm2007-07-10 08:48:15
    What a load of ..... by DesertRat662007-07-10 08:54:29
      So they're the worst people ever to exist? by kelli2172007-07-10 08:58:10
        Now you'll have to back that up by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:07:29
          You mean to tell me... by kelli2172007-07-10 09:14:54
            And? by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:24:48
              I'll let that response speak for itself. (n/t) by kelli2172007-07-10 09:56:03
        Were in the heck by lheggland2007-07-10 09:09:32
          Not talking about leadership, talking about rabble by kelli2172007-07-10 09:49:45
            I just don't see isolationism as the solution. (n/t) by Classic_jon2007-07-10 09:55:29
              Where do you see isolationism? by kelli2172007-07-10 10:04:58
                What you proposed sounded very much like the by Classic_jon2007-07-10 10:15:06
                  I refer you to the mention of NATO above. by kelli2172007-07-10 10:18:53
                    Right, but NATO is not considered a "governing by Classic_jon2007-07-10 10:24:21
                      Like in Bosnia? (n/t) by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:32:51
                        You make my point for me there. by Classic_jon2007-07-10 10:49:10
                          Ups, wrong war in the Balkans. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:57:00
                            And there is still debate about it, although by Classic_jon2007-07-10 12:03:06
                      NATO is not a world policeman like the UN. by kelli2172007-07-10 10:50:19
                        May I direct your attention by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 11:00:50
                    Cold war is over time to stand down... by DesertRat662007-07-10 10:25:03
                      And pulling out of the NATO countries by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:38:48
                        Maybe even quite unpopular by DesertRat662007-07-10 10:43:24
                          Depends. by CynicalRyan2007-07-10 10:45:29
                      Nope, sorry, nice try. by kelli2172007-07-10 10:46:27
                        Those bases have advantages to all members by DesertRat662007-07-10 11:10:06
            What works is to appeal instead to the population by DesertRat662007-07-10 09:59:49
              In A), you paint with too wide a brush. by kelli2172007-07-10 10:11:15
                Really? by DesertRat662007-07-10 10:23:12
                  There was, and is, an anti-Taliban underground. by kelli2172007-07-10 10:47:23
                    Where was I in the 90s?! by DesertRat662007-07-10 11:02:07
            Pre-WWII style isolationism. by lheggland2007-07-10 10:22:16
            There is one MAJOR flaw in your fourth paragraph: by SouthpawPL2007-07-10 11:17:49
        sometimes you just need to speak the language by robertltux2007-07-10 10:01:54
          Hard core criminals make lousy troops. by Illiad2007-07-10 10:25:20
            But they do make good mine sweepers. ;-) (n/t) by lheggland2007-07-10 10:34:14
            Tell that to General Wellington by tkirk2007-07-10 12:43:57
              Huge difference. by Illiad2007-07-10 17:36:27
    Gandhi by chrisP2007-07-10 09:18:39
      The West does "bring democracy" by Illiad2007-07-10 09:26:33
        Who was it that defined 'democracy' and 'liberty' by theanomaly2007-07-10 09:29:19
          To para-quote a very eloquent man, by krikkert2007-07-10 09:37:14
      Well said. by lheggland2007-07-10 09:32:54
        See? by chrisP2007-07-10 09:39:48
      Advocating rebellion, eh? by werehatrack2007-07-10 10:59:10
        You have a very interesting view of by lheggland2007-07-10 11:04:39
        *coughcough* by chrisP2007-07-10 11:07:22
    It is all on deaf ears after all. by kelli2172007-07-10 13:03:12

 

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