| Thyestean feast in Iraq? |
by DesertRat66 |
2007-07-10 07:23:48 |
First of RetiQlum2, you are not allowed to click on any of the following links until you have secured all loose breakable or boomy objects and removed them from the room. I advise a long walk bfore posting any replies for you as well. Second if you have a weak constitution DO NOT follow the links.
Michael Yon's Baqubah update
Victor Davis Hansen's editorial on the newsWhat is striking about all this savagery—whether with the filmed beheadings of Westerners in Iraq to the recent flaming Johnny Storm human torch at Glasgow, screaming epithets as he sought to engulf bystanders and ignite his canisters — is the absolute silence of the West, either distracted by Paris and i-Phones or suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome and obsessed with Guantanamo.
It is hard to recall an enemy so savage and yet one so largely ignored by rich affluent and distracted elites as the radical jihadists, as we have to evoke everything from mythology to comic books to find analogies to their extra-human viciousness.
For a self-congratulatory culture issuing moral lectures on everything from global warming to the dangers of smoking, the silence of the West toward the primordial horror from Gaza to Anbar is, well, horrific in its own way as well...
I couldn't agree more. |
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[ Reply ] |
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How DARE we ignore all this by | by hadji | 2007-07-10 07:33:05 |
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Don't get the news much? (n/t) | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 07:34:48 |
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Don't clarify your points much? (n/t) | by hadji | 2007-07-10 07:36:30 |
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Nevermind, it's not worth it. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 07:43:01 |
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I figured you at least skimmed headlines | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 08:25:01 |
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That post is useless. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 08:36:21 |
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Am thinking the "absolute silence..." | by esbita | 2007-07-10 09:33:08 |
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General rule of debating: | by AndyA | 2007-07-10 09:36:52 |
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Another general rule of debating: | by esbita | 2007-07-10 09:41:46 |
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Did not read the link. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 09:47:01 |
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How is it not specific? | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:50:05 |
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I am, in fact, hearing quite a lot about it. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 09:56:17 |
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If you won't read the link, don't debate. | by esbita | 2007-07-10 09:54:38 |
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You're right. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 10:04:09 |
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PFB. (n/t) | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:06:55 |
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Yes, and now it really is time for me to go. (n/t) | by hadji | 2007-07-10 10:07:50 |
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The article says | by jeff_uk | 2007-07-10 09:52:05 |
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Not that hadji would've known. | by esbita | 2007-07-10 10:02:57 |
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Gawd. Now *I'm* being ambiguous. | by esbita | 2007-07-10 10:04:07 |
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Yes he could, DR66 quoted that part here..... (n/t) | by jeff_uk | 2007-07-10 10:05:00 |
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But no, that's not what DR meant. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 10:06:59 |
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Quoted what, where? (n/t) | by esbita | 2007-07-10 10:09:01 |
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In the TLP | by hadji | 2007-07-10 10:21:18 |
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Read the article. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:31:47 |
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But the claim of 'absolute silence' was general, | by jeff_uk | 2007-07-10 10:32:52 |
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It puts the quotes into the approproate | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:36:41 |
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Nice cherry-picking. | by esbita | 2007-07-10 10:32:52 |
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There are times when cherry-picking is valid. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 11:33:42 |
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Did you apply your skills of scrutiny | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 12:23:37 |
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My agenda is to argue the following points. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 12:39:17 |
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So, you are after DR66, and not after the article | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 12:43:40 |
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To be more precise, I'm after the TLP. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 12:50:08 |
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You didn't even read the article you criticize. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 12:56:48 |
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I've read both, and I've replied accordingly. (n/t | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:10:25 |
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Hardly. Without reading the context... | by esbita | 2007-07-10 12:26:21 |
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Evening news has a duty to gather ratings. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 12:31:42 |
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Will you read the article? | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 12:35:00 |
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If a scrap of rhetorical license | by esbita | 2007-07-10 12:41:59 |
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Chalk it up as you please. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 12:46:41 |
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And what, pray tell, are you teaching here? | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 12:51:54 |
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I've read the articles, and I've seen nothing | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:04:26 |
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Oh, and I'm constantly hearing that | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:09:32 |
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To put it as politely as I can: | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 15:04:06 |
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Ecellent. Thank you. (n/t) | by hadji | 2007-07-10 15:05:31 |
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*ahem* So now, I've read the article. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:43:21 |
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Others targeted that already. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 14:01:08 |
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I never saw a valid argument against me. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:09:27 |
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See here. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 14:17:09 |
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Your concession is accepted. (n/t) | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:25:11 |
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Concession? | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 14:40:50 |
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See here. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:44:06 |
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Ah, the latter part. (n/t) | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 14:58:09 |
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And have I mentioned that the scrap of | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:22:11 |
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Is there reason to believe that possibly | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 13:01:15 |
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If you look back a few days | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 13:09:32 |
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And in the article states that someone | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 13:15:02 |
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More the general | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 13:25:45 |
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I hear quite a bit about the atrocities | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:32:24 |
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Where from | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 13:38:22 |
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Various sources, but primarily NPR. | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:58:29 |
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You make a perfect counter example | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 14:17:07 |
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I would not dispute the claim of | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:23:29 |
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It is also no new revelation that mainstream | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:32:56 |
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It's also not a new one that | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 14:50:51 |
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"While there may not be 'Absolute Silence' . . ." | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:54:46 |
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You seem to have an unhealthy fascination | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 13:54:32 |
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Having seen what extremists can do up close and | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 14:03:33 |
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Now, that's actually the sorta response I'm lookin | by esbita | 2007-07-10 13:22:49 |
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What you seem to be missing is that the summary | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:29:50 |
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You couldn't have "known" that at the time | by esbita | 2007-07-10 13:41:06 |
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It was a reasonable guess. And it was right. (n/t | by hadji | 2007-07-10 13:47:51 |
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But you might not have been right! and arguing | by jeff_uk | 2007-07-10 14:01:35 |
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Kinda like Bush invading Iraq in the first place, | by hadji | 2007-07-10 14:06:24 |
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The question that maybe needs to be asked is, | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 08:43:02 |
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That is either an excellent idea or a catastrophic | by hadji | 2007-07-10 08:48:09 |
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Given the tensions that are there already: | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 08:51:15 |
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A gun is the equalizer. | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 08:53:10 |
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Nice. Except a gun, and working as a cohesive, | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 08:57:53 |
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"Never give a man a gun unless you know | by hadji | 2007-07-10 08:58:10 |
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A very valid point. (n/t) | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 08:59:07 |
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Hmm. I find myself in very unfamiliar territory | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:10:42 |
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I doubt you'll get backup here. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:14:29 |
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Well, of course not! | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:17:18 |
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How do you know that civilian X | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:20:04 |
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Contact local tribal leaders in order to | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:36:24 |
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I don't have to show why "my" way is better | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:44:01 |
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By saying that what I propose is bad | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:52:43 |
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Where did I assert that doing nothing is better? | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:57:49 |
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PFB. Now go away or I will taunt you again! (n/t) | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 10:06:21 |
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Hm, rabbit stew tonight.. (n/t) | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:12:59 |
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The problem is, how do you differentiate between | by hadji | 2007-07-10 09:27:53 |
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Stop giving me my favourite arguments back! | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:44:29 |
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Or it would just result in the bloodiest | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:47:26 |
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Actually, sunnis and shiites used to get along. | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:59:39 |
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Ya, they get along. | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 10:28:53 |
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Read much? | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 10:41:08 |
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In Iraq? | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 10:58:35 |
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That reply does not indicate any | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 11:17:56 |
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I did read them. | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 11:27:15 |
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I choose to read the articles I linked to. | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 12:06:37 |
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You don't | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:47:11 |
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The point is moot | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:19:01 |
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What is so bad about them viewing the | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 08:57:30 |
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Most households in Iraq are already armed | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:03:38 |
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Being seen as just another tribe does not | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:08:12 |
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I think you are bypassing the meat of the point | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 09:19:06 |
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If anything, it shows that the troops | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:22:59 |
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How accepted can they be, really? | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:31:05 |
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How do you know that the acceptance | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:35:12 |
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His story is very well known. | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 09:37:41 |
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Yes, it is unusual to get all the Arabian tribes | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 09:45:26 |
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You are seeing part of what the point is | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 09:46:25 |
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That is a good description of another way | by Peace_man | 2007-07-10 10:03:11 |
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I know that I can be a bit contentious. | by RetiQlum2 | 2007-07-10 07:50:53 |
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OK, you were right. | by RetiQlum2 | 2007-07-10 08:16:29 |
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It was more like friendly advice | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 08:21:37 |
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F4 all that! | by RetiQlum2 | 2007-07-10 08:26:43 |
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And just think... | by Phoon | 2007-07-10 08:21:31 |
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Is that your personal opinion? (n/t) | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 08:22:50 |
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I ask because Afganistan is a U.N. mission | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 08:38:33 |
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Hmm.. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 08:24:51 |
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Mazari Sharif, Kandahar, Tora Bora... | by Phoon | 2007-07-10 08:28:51 |
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Your premise is wrong. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 08:35:18 |
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Wow. It hought you were uninformed before. | by RetiQlum2 | 2007-07-10 08:30:49 |
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ITYM "anywhere ANYMORE if we had..." | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 08:38:54 |
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Of course the answer is to just kill 'em all... | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 08:27:20 |
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I couldn't read it all. | by RetiQlum2 | 2007-07-10 08:42:53 |
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PFB | by altordwm | 2007-07-10 08:48:15 |
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What a load of ..... | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 08:54:29 |
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So they're the worst people ever to exist? | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 08:58:10 |
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Now you'll have to back that up | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:07:29 |
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You mean to tell me... | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 09:14:54 |
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And? | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:24:48 |
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I'll let that response speak for itself. (n/t) | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 09:56:03 |
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Were in the heck | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 09:09:32 |
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Not talking about leadership, talking about rabble | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 09:49:45 |
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I just don't see isolationism as the solution. (n/t) | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 09:55:29 |
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Where do you see isolationism? | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 10:04:58 |
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What you proposed sounded very much like the | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 10:15:06 |
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I refer you to the mention of NATO above. | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 10:18:53 |
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Right, but NATO is not considered a "governing | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 10:24:21 |
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Like in Bosnia? (n/t) | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:32:51 |
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You make my point for me there. | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 10:49:10 |
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Ups, wrong war in the Balkans. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:57:00 |
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And there is still debate about it, although | by Classic_jon | 2007-07-10 12:03:06 |
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NATO is not a world policeman like the UN. | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 10:50:19 |
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May I direct your attention | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 11:00:50 |
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Cold war is over time to stand down... | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 10:25:03 |
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And pulling out of the NATO countries | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:38:48 |
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Maybe even quite unpopular | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 10:43:24 |
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Depends. | by CynicalRyan | 2007-07-10 10:45:29 |
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Nope, sorry, nice try. | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 10:46:27 |
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Those bases have advantages to all members | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 11:10:06 |
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What works is to appeal instead to the population | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 09:59:49 |
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In A), you paint with too wide a brush. | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 10:11:15 |
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Really? | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 10:23:12 |
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There was, and is, an anti-Taliban underground. | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 10:47:23 |
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Where was I in the 90s?! | by DesertRat66 | 2007-07-10 11:02:07 |
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Pre-WWII style isolationism. | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 10:22:16 |
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There is one MAJOR flaw in your fourth paragraph: | by SouthpawPL | 2007-07-10 11:17:49 |
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sometimes you just need to speak the language | by robertltux | 2007-07-10 10:01:54 |
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Hard core criminals make lousy troops. | by Illiad | 2007-07-10 10:25:20 |
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But they do make good mine sweepers. ;-) (n/t) | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 10:34:14 |
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Tell that to General Wellington | by tkirk | 2007-07-10 12:43:57 |
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Huge difference. | by Illiad | 2007-07-10 17:36:27 |
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Gandhi | by chrisP | 2007-07-10 09:18:39 |
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The West does "bring democracy" | by Illiad | 2007-07-10 09:26:33 |
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Who was it that defined 'democracy' and 'liberty' | by theanomaly | 2007-07-10 09:29:19 |
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To para-quote a very eloquent man, | by krikkert | 2007-07-10 09:37:14 |
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Well said. | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 09:32:54 |
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See? | by chrisP | 2007-07-10 09:39:48 |
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Advocating rebellion, eh? | by werehatrack | 2007-07-10 10:59:10 |
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You have a very interesting view of | by lheggland | 2007-07-10 11:04:39 |
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*coughcough* | by chrisP | 2007-07-10 11:07:22 |
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It is all on deaf ears after all. | by kelli217 | 2007-07-10 13:03:12 |