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So... it was effective after all... | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 12:38:50 |
| Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics |
by DesertRat66 |
2006-12-13 12:55:03 |
Has the overall suicide rate declined by the same amount as well?
Making guns less available does not reduce suicide but merely causes the person seeking death to use another means.
While gun-related suicides were reduced by Canada's gun control legislation of 1978, the overall suicide rate did not go down at all: the gun-related suicides were replaced 100% by an increase in other types of suicide -- mostly jumping off bridges.
"The authors describe suicide rates in Toronto and Ontario and methods used for suicide in Toronto for 5 years before and after enactment of Canadian gun control legislation in 1978. They also present data from San Diego, Calif., where state laws attempt to limit access to guns by certain psychiatric patients. Both sets of data indicate that gun control legislation may have led to decreased use of guns by suicidal men, but the difference was apparently offset by an increase in suicide by leaping. In the case of men using guns for suicide, these data support a hypothesis of substitution of suicide method."
Source: "Guns and suicide: possible effects of some specific legislation," Rich, Young, Fowler, Wagner, and Black, The American Journal of Psychiatry March, 1990
How about Violent Crime? |
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[ Reply ] |
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61% of all statistics are made up (n/t) | by ValenceParadigm | 2006-12-13 12:57:36 |
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That's 65%, if you account for inflation! (n/t) | by Narc | 2006-12-13 13:00:30 |
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Plus, the other 36% | by MatthewDBA | 2006-12-13 13:02:15 |
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Yeah, but 7 out of five people don't get fractions (n/t) | by basher20 | 2006-12-13 14:10:03 |
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Isn't that what we always tell you when you | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 13:00:38 |
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You have one problem though | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 13:04:56 |
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That's Bull, DR | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 13:14:48 |
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Really? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 13:26:52 |
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*splutters diet coke on screen* | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 13:30:13 |
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Who says I'm not? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 13:43:53 |
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Both of whom | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 13:46:54 |
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Show me | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:02:38 |
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it doesn't, but the link I posted does. (n/t) | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:04:05 |
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Civil right, perhaps. Human right, NO. | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 13:59:00 |
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Oh this is going to be fun | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:19:08 |
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Not fun for you. Rebuttal, using your own words. | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:22:32 |
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I was referring to suicide in that quote | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:33:25 |
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Dude, there's a MASSIVE difference between | by subbywan | 2006-12-13 14:07:45 |
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Not if you research what the founders thought | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:21:31 |
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They might | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 14:26:13 |
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I am well aware of Port Arthur | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:29:00 |
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and 2/3 of the U.S = everyone in the world? (n/t) | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 14:30:01 |
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But only applicable to AMERICANS | by subbywan | 2006-12-13 14:49:54 |
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Currently yes | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 17:55:28 |
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s/right/privelige/ and you've got it. | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 18:47:37 |
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Paranoid people like who? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 19:34:50 |
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BS mate. | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 19:45:13 |
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How many | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 19:51:42 |
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The ones where he's tried to say that the magna | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 19:53:30 |
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If you take the time | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 20:04:27 |
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This one: | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 20:11:37 |
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So your rights are granted to you by your | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 20:33:14 |
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Very little | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 21:11:47 |
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If there is nothing to keep them from being taken | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:21:09 |
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And guns are not a human right in australia | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 21:33:10 |
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Do you ever step back and agree to disagree? | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 20:17:08 |
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Greatly depends on the subject | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 20:30:27 |
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Apologies for being forceful | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 20:52:37 |
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But you never answered the question | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 20:55:44 |
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Nothing you would have faith in. | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 21:07:32 |
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It's quite relevant | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:23:10 |
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No, they didn't. | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:52:13 |
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There's other documents | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 17:52:55 |
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Do they apply | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 20:24:05 |
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Where do I say they do? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 20:51:22 |
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When you say 'human right' then you are talking | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 20:59:23 |
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Convicted felons do NOT get to vote in the US. (n/ (n/t) | by quilting_kitty | 2006-12-13 21:13:52 |
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Huh. I stand corrected. I could have SWORN. (n/t) | by quilting_kitty | 2006-12-13 21:15:27 |
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Depends on the state | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:27:39 |
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First off | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:16:03 |
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I don't know that much about US laws in detail, | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 21:27:17 |
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Both rights can be lost via a felony conviction | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:36:36 |
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Then I must be a da-- fool. | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 21:39:54 |
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That is your choice, | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 21:45:54 |
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at the cost of other people's rights. | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 21:47:57 |
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How so? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:49:47 |
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If you kill someone, you have violated his | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:05:11 |
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There is plenty basis in law for that | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:16:17 |
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It is, however, not a Constitutional right. | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:21:52 |
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The law is an implementation of the right | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:23:36 |
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What does the law say about protecting | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:24:45 |
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Absolutely nothing | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:34:24 |
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That is must be justified. | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:37:53 |
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s/is/it (n/t) | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:38:32 |
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No, I don't. | by Peace_man | 2006-12-14 00:25:42 |
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The group of really smart guys | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:25:31 |
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Ah, I see. | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:29:24 |
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Actually it says exactly what it means | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:38:55 |
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That wasn't the part I was talking about. | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 23:03:21 |
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When you are analyzing the intent of | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:52:32 |
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Seconded | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:57:54 |
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Heh. You could even look at it another way, too. | by Peace_man | 2006-12-14 00:28:57 |
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Well sure let's use your logic | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-14 07:43:09 |
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You forgot about quartering soldiers. (n/t) | by RetiQlum2 | 2007-05-09 04:42:37 |
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No, crime will happen | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 21:54:14 |
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what a load of capr | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 21:56:54 |
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Maybe you can defend yourself ably | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:03:39 |
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None | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:05:47 |
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If an unarmed population is one open to | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:09:29 |
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Yes, | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:19:58 |
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I take it that you agree with us when we say | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:23:30 |
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Gun control tends to increases crime | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:32:58 |
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A proliferation of guns allows criminals | by Peace_man | 2006-12-14 00:31:12 |
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How many times does this point have to be refuted | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-14 07:44:43 |
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That is explained by differences in culture | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:21:50 |
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When did I claim that guns, or the lack of them, | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:26:31 |
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You didn't. You did ask however | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:44:16 |
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I guess I can claim that what happened | by Peace_man | 2006-12-14 00:36:24 |
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Note, | by lheggland | 2006-12-13 22:12:34 |
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I consider positions like yours more than foolish | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 21:47:52 |
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Why? | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 21:51:26 |
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Whose right to live? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:06:59 |
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Your arguments are weak. | by Peace_man | 2006-12-13 22:15:26 |
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How do you explain Rwanda? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 22:32:17 |
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psssst | by justncase | 2006-12-13 13:37:30 |
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Guns are NOT a | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 13:37:46 |
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Geneva Convention is not THE document for basic | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:01:47 |
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The U.S Constitution applies only to the U.S | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 14:08:25 |
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Neither is the US Constitution. (n/t) | by subbywan | 2006-12-13 14:08:31 |
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THE document that has been a model of human rights | by AndyA | 2006-12-13 14:09:04 |
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The US Constitution and Bill of Rights | by subbywan | 2006-12-13 14:11:07 |
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The one big difference is that | by AndyA | 2006-12-13 14:19:15 |
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Maybe because there was never any risk of it | by Arachnid | 2006-12-13 14:22:11 |
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You mean the US isn't a theocracy? | by AndyA | 2006-12-13 14:25:08 |
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Yet. (n/t) | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:48:41 |
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The Magna Carta was part of the principles | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:27:12 |
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So the bit about the right to own a gun | by AndyA | 2006-12-13 14:53:17 |
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It wasn't missed | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 16:22:26 |
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Ah... No. | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 18:18:52 |
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Ah... Yes | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 19:22:40 |
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I stand corrected. (n/t) | by NemoHac | 2006-12-13 19:30:03 |
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So the English have been missing a basic right | by AndyA | 2006-12-13 18:20:34 |
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Yep and this was even addressed in 1803 | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 19:26:14 |
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Neither is the US Constitution. | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:17:53 |
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^^^^ Sources and linkys, guys! (n/t) | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:19:13 |
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Did you even read the UN document? | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:35:33 |
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The logical answer would be... | by Arachnid | 2006-12-13 14:43:08 |
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because WE HELPED WRITE IT. | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:49:53 |
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You're getting warmer | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 16:24:17 |
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the UDHR is heavily influenced by US founding docs | by basher20 | 2006-12-13 14:47:39 |
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yup. read that last link I provided. | by Havoc | 2006-12-13 14:50:23 |
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Does it even mention the 2nd amendment? (n/t) | by subbywan | 2006-12-13 14:52:35 |
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Overall suicide is on a downslide | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 13:44:31 |
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A slow one | by DesertRat66 | 2006-12-13 14:07:36 |
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It doesn't have to | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 14:12:53 |
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And those numbers are from an unbiased source? | by AndyA | 2006-12-13 13:52:40 |
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What does this have to do with suicide anyway? | by Arachnid | 2006-12-13 14:14:49 |
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And if it's purpose | by fitzso | 2006-12-13 14:28:31 |