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Iran Defiantly Rejects New U.N. Demands by DesertRat662006-11-19 12:55:59
  You hear a colective groan of by lheggland2006-03-30 10:12:02
    but Desert Storm was over ten years ago! by Peace_man2006-03-30 10:19:16
      I would be refering to OIF/Desert Storm Mk II. by lheggland2006-03-30 10:31:38
        I beg your pardon? by Control2006-03-30 10:38:41
          Not per everyones Intel. by lheggland2006-03-30 10:51:57
            A worse mistake was NOT going in by rorajoey2006-03-30 10:59:42
              There have been a lot of mistakes made by DesertRat662006-03-30 11:08:48
                Further than that. by Tomo2006-03-30 12:01:43
                  There's that western value mistake again by DesertRat662006-03-30 12:19:56
                    That is exactly the mistake we made in Ireland. by Tomo2006-03-30 12:48:30
                      That approach WILL NOT work in the middle east by DesertRat662006-03-30 13:20:37
                        I am not convinced by vdp2006-03-30 13:36:29
                          I know the culture by DesertRat662006-11-19 12:55:59
                            Japan's surrender by vdp2006-11-19 12:55:59
                              Do you understand that the only reason Japan by classic_jon2006-03-30 15:40:11
                                There is a difference between by vdp2006-03-30 16:06:36
                                I understand what you are saying but in by Classic_jon2006-03-30 17:40:10
                                I think we are talking past each other by vdp 2006-03-30 20:05:45
I am not arguing that Japan's society was not completely changed after WWII. I am arguing to learn from how that was done, and that it took a lot of painstaking effort, with measured responses, and it was a success. Isn't that what the best outcome of the war in Iraq would be (regardless of what one thinks about the necessity of the war)? A completely changed society, and a friendly to the West nation? My point is that you cannot blame only the culture of violence in Iraq for the current situation, since a similarly violent culture was changed successfully not 60 years ago.

By the way, the Japanese militarist society of the 20's and 30's also developed very quickly, together with the resurrection of the German militarism. And both were born partially out of the feeling (justified or not) of beeing treated as second-class nations, with the winners of WWI controlling all the strategic raw materials (e.g. oil) and preventing these nations from developing their full potential. Does this sound familiar? Any similarity with the current anti-American propaganda in the Arab and Muslim world?

I hope I am clearer on why I bring these points up. Disregarding the lessons of the past is at our own peril...
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