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alright, already by zeitnot2005-08-04 05:23:24
  morality has nothing to do with "Truth" by voxwoman 2005-08-04 05:44:01
(and the capital "T" is there purposefully, to distinguish "universal, objective Truth" from "regular" truth).

Moral standards are a matter of opinion. In society, it's a "consensus opinion" and it's what keeps me from driving to the grocery store in my birthday suit (that, and the "morality/health laws" regulating dress codes). We all have a social contract with each other that enables us to live in close proximity to others without killing them (for the most part -- killing neighbors is still a fairly rare occurance).

I feel that I can make the above claim based on history. Up until a hundred or so years ago, it was considered "moral" for a man to own slaves and to beat his wife and children, as they were also "his property" to do with as he pleased. Even now, there are cultural practices in various cultures on the globe that are "amoral" or abhorrent to one group, yet are considered "perfectly normal" to the culture in which it is practiced (such as circumcision). The social contract is a living and fluid thing (as is the "consensus morality") and it changes over time, with the tastes of the society that enforces it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you ARE able to decide what is moral for you AND act upon it. And people do so every day. However, if you grate against the "social contract" (by acting in ways that are detrimental to those around you), there's a good chance that the rest of society will do something to get you to conform or to remove you from its presence (usually by enacting laws and then enforcing them).

Morality, like ethics, is a personal thing. It's not something you can legislate, and, despite what preachers may think, it's not something you can instill through fear. All you can do is "regulate behavior" that way.

As far as Truth goes, as long as we are observers of the universe, we will never percieve the "objective Truth". And we are designed to be observers.

[ Reply ]
    the TRUTH! by zeitnot2005-08-04 06:00:32
      I think you've summed up what I was getting at by voxwoman2005-08-04 06:22:15
        well alright, but by zeitnot2005-08-04 07:20:00
          because good and evil are relative by voxwoman2005-08-04 08:03:01
            I'm not entirely sure I agree by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 08:48:01
              here's a context for you by voxwoman2005-08-04 09:21:46
                The action can be regarded as you say by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 09:33:46
              Good and evil by DevinUll2005-08-04 09:42:18
                As far as Quakers by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 10:04:36
                well, by zeitnot2005-08-04 10:24:51
                I think you meant Amish and not Quakers? (n/t) by voxwoman2005-08-04 10:27:02
                  Thanks Mixing up my religions. again (n/t) by DevinUll2005-08-04 13:48:04
            no! they're not! by zeitnot2005-08-04 09:16:28
              ???? by voxwoman2005-08-04 09:26:45
                *examines wheelbarrow* by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 09:35:20
                  Your pickup truck is evil (n/t) by voxwoman2005-08-04 09:37:17
                    you're just jealous of it :-P (n/t) by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 09:38:56
                Sorry. Got a bit carried away. by zeitnot2005-08-04 09:47:56
                  I won't invoke Godwin, even though I'm tempted by voxwoman2005-08-04 10:11:54
                    i had to look that up. by zeitnot2005-08-04 10:38:59
                      When you say that opinion is relative, and truth by Peace_man2005-08-04 10:46:43
                        yep. by zeitnot2005-08-04 11:28:54
                      fine. then let me redefine the parameters by voxwoman2005-08-04 10:59:44
                        augh! she redefined the parameters! by zeitnot2005-08-04 11:19:16
                          still not good enough. sorry. by voxwoman2005-08-04 12:41:55
                            I agree by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 13:25:17
                              I agree with most of what you said there by voxwoman2005-08-04 14:05:44
                                replying to myself to add by voxwoman2005-08-04 14:07:18
                                That I think I'd disagree with by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 17:05:32
                                whew. this thread has been active for by voxwoman2005-08-04 19:23:40
                            but wait! by zeitnot2005-08-04 15:51:33
                            and another thing! by zeitnot2005-08-04 16:11:05
                              heh. you like absolutes and I like infinities by voxwoman2005-08-04 17:10:45
          Only universal truths I know of by Pic2005-08-04 08:03:04
            That, in itself, is illuminating. by zeitnot2005-08-04 09:20:30
    One comment by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 08:40:23
      I guess this is where I differ in a lot of my by voxwoman2005-08-04 09:14:53
        yes, but by zeitnot2005-08-04 09:27:26
          Not necessarily by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 09:37:45
            well, by zeitnot2005-08-04 09:54:41
        I'm not sure that it will by MatthewDBA2005-08-04 09:27:33

 

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