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The joys of dealing with people and money. (Long) by Myke 2004-07-12 13:19:57
Illiad's TLP with the email dialog down there made me think of this recent occurance of mine and I thought I'd share it with you.

Some of you know that I graduated from Post-secondary about a year ago and I decided to take the plunge of running my own business & ISP. It's been a fantastic learning experience, I get to play with neat toys^H^H^H^Hhardware and all kinds of stuff. The pay is *really* great... there's just extended periods where I don't get paid at all. I'm not very well known in the local area (yet) so I need to grow my client base. I know this, I'm working on it.

But let me share this story of DB recovery with you, the formatting and tone is a little different as I've copied and modified this from an email I sent to my sister.

--------

A few weeks ago, I restored (disaster recovery) a database for a professional services company. I was the 4th person to look at the problem and the first one to solve it. I told the client I would charge a stupid-low rate of $50/hr instead of $150/hr or $500/hr.

The way it went down:

-> I arrive at the home office around 2PM on a Friday
-> I spend three hours backing up data, investigating the system, determining where the problem is. There are no log files, there are no previous backups, the client doesn't keep them. I cannot solve the problem right there, so I take a copy and discuss my rates with the client - no disagreement.
-> That night, I do research, experimentation etc... for 3 hours. Then I get it. I managed to recover all the data! I feel like a million bucks! I verify it's sanity and send the client an email saying I've done it.
-> Next morning, between dropping my bro off at work and needing to get to another client in Kanata, I call the client, tell him the good news and offer to drop by to install the DB. I explain I'm on a time line. He's okay with that.
-> Arrive at 1120, install DB, test it, re-explain the importance of backups, do some, train him how. He asks how much, I say $200 for "4 hours" of work. He winces and says "My, that is expensive"... I don't think so. "Database work will always be, especially data recovery. Most guys will charge you $250/hr..."

Especially because you had 2 of YOUR DB guys come and look at it already.
Especially because I've now spent over 7 hours on your problem.

Oh the things I should've said... Exeunt.

-> A few days later, I issue invoice #131 for $200 (4hr * $50/hr) on a NET-30 term, keeping in mind this is a new client, I could've demanded payment on the spot.
No acknowledgment.

-> July 8th (yesterday) I recv'd a phone call around 1230, it is the client, I get worried that I failed. Nope, not the case. He thinks $200 is too much for what I've done. He explains that he'd like to work with me in the future, but this seems like a bit much.

First thing I ask "Is the data okay? Did I do my job?"
Client: "Oh yes, but we had a problem."
Me: "With what I did or something else?" (I had noticed when I issued the invoice his website had died altogether)
Client: "Well we had trouble getting the database running again."
Me: "It was working when I left, and from my POV, it was working for several days, what happened?"
Client: "Oh, I had LZMJKSKS (the guy who referred me) flatten the server."
Me: "?"
Client: "It needed to be reloaded, and then when he did that, he couldn't get the database going again so I had to get my other database guy in to fix it. You can see I have a lot of bills to pay!"
(There was nothing wrong with the server when I was there, the DB problem was entirely MySQL related)
Me: "That... doesn't have anything to do with me, I fixed the problem you asked me to fix."
Client: "Yes, but you see how tight money is, and I'd like to work with you in the future again."
(There's that damn carrot again. Stop holding that in front of me!)
Me: "So... *sigh*... you think I'm asking too much for the work I did? What do you feel would be a fair rate/bill?" (This guy is in Professional Services, he knows)
Client: "Well, I just want to be able to work with you in the future."
{More drivel saying nothing. I decide on a pressure tactic...}
Me: "I'll call you back in an hour."


So I figure I'll let him stew for a little while. By not telling me what he thinks is a fair rate, he wants to see how low I'll got on my first offer, and then he'll probably try and haggle me down from there.

So I call MADJLSP (mentor/client), ask what he thinks. His reaction is: Make him pay it, if this is the first invoice, do you want to deal with someone like this again? And why did you give him NET-30?
After some discussion, we come up with 3 counter offers:
-> 10% off, leave the term as is (till July x)
-> 25% off, payment is due by 4PM today
-> Discount on the NEXT invoice (hold the carrot in front of him!)
But he still thinks it's not a client worth dealing with, just make him pay and be done with it.

Next I call LZMJKSKS to find out what the remaining story is and why it matters to me. As it turns out, after I did my work, the client managed to break the server and it required a full OS reload. Then the other DB guy had to come and reconfigure the DB server. LZMJKSKS worked on it for 14 hours. How much did LZMJKSKS bill? $280 ($20/hr) oh.... but THAT is too much for the client! He haggled LZMJKSKS down to $230 ($16/hr). I told LZMJKSKS he's not charging enough.

So. This guy is apparently a cheapskate.

I wait till an hour and 15 minutes after I talked to him. Call him up.
....
Me: "Okay, so we have the matter here where I performed some work for you, which was successful and you had no problems with my efforts. I have billed you what I consider to be a fair rate but you disagree. Since you haven't told me what you think is a fair price, I have a few proposals for you."
Client: "Okay."
Me: "The first option is, I'll give you %10 off and leave the remainder of the term to pay it off."
Client: "Oh! Another thing - your late fee is illegal, you'll be sued for it like Enbridge Gas company was."
Me: "Huh? Well, we're not that far yet so we don't need to worry about that."
Client: "Yes, so I will cut you a cheque for $200 and pay you."
Me: "Pardon?"
Client: (curtly) "You want your $200, so you will get it and that will be it."
Me: "Well, you haven't heard me out yet, I have some things I think we can work out. Do you want to hear them all?"
Client: "No."
Me: "Okay. Thanks for doing business, bye bye."
Client: "Bye".
*click*


Now, you may think of me as a fool for going thru this, but there were many reasons, the first being that I need every client and every dollar I can get. So if I could make him happy and get more work, that would be nice. Furthermore, he's a Professional Services business, so he'd be good for networking. And it was a good learning experience too.

But after this, I don't think I care to work with him again, if he doesn't pay by the due date, I'll call him and find out what's going on. Then, I'll give him another 10 days, and I'll call a collection agency.

What would you have done?

[ Reply ]
  Illiad's post by Myke2006-11-19 12:55:59
  You did well by Geline2004-07-12 14:02:31
    Agreed. by hadji2004-07-12 14:12:49
      Forget it. by Myke2004-07-12 22:52:54
  For what its worth.... by evilsysadmin2004-07-12 14:15:17
    Now that would be interesting to see by BrainBug2004-07-12 14:28:27
  Good thing to keep in mind by evilsysadmin2004-07-12 14:23:52
    Paretto's Law by toxin2004-07-12 14:40:12
      Well... by Naruki2004-07-12 14:43:56
        One in four people is clinically insane. by Myke2004-07-12 14:44:45
          3 of my friends are batS4 nuts. by Naruki2004-07-12 14:46:44
            Look! A Diversion! (n/t) by Myke2004-07-12 14:47:41
          Doesn't work. by julius.apweiler2004-07-12 15:09:12
        Maybe the last case... by kelli2172004-07-12 14:49:51
          Straws, eh? by Naruki2004-07-12 14:54:41
            Business talk to gutter by Myke2004-07-12 14:57:16
              I'm surprised it took that many posts. by shorty822004-07-12 14:58:37
                Me, too by tigermouse2004-07-12 15:17:11
        80% of STD infections occur in 20% of any pop. by toxin2004-07-12 14:57:12
  You did the right thing by VCA2004-07-12 14:29:32
    Ever worked on Avaya PBXs? by AndyA2004-07-12 15:19:36
      Can't say that I have... by VCA2004-07-12 15:41:55
        I don't blame you. by AndyA2004-07-12 15:50:35
    Simple work. by Myke2004-07-12 22:55:41
  15 years OH&S consulting experience. by toxin2004-07-12 14:34:49
    Not to mention the Tax benefit. by Naruki2004-07-12 14:40:14
  Here's why I'm not an entrepreneur. by kelli2172004-07-12 14:37:49
    Yes. Yes I do. (n/t) by Myke2004-07-12 14:39:24
      You can't afford me. by kelli2172004-07-12 14:44:39
        s'Okay by Myke2004-07-12 14:45:50
  The Joys of Client Idgits (Southern term meaning by Tully_marrs2004-07-12 15:15:06
    Problem is, I have variable rates... by Myke2004-07-12 23:00:14
  You don't need clients like that. by Arcanum2004-07-12 15:33:26
    I'm too nice. by Myke2004-07-12 22:57:11
  Kidnapped by K-Mart? by Evil_Minion2004-07-12 15:57:42
    Agreed. 20/20 hindsight is like that. by Myke2004-07-12 17:21:03
      Yeah, I know it was for me - especially when by Evil_Minion2004-07-12 17:35:31
        Setting rates is tough to do... by nate_t_g2004-07-12 21:20:22
    loved that movie. :) (n/t) by j.butterfly2004-07-12 17:22:58
  I undertand completely... by nate_t_g2004-07-12 20:56:08
  If you think you'd get any referrals from this guy by kahuana2004-07-12 22:20:48
    erm... "on promises" that is :-) (n/t) by kahuana2004-07-12 22:21:22

 

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