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Attn: Naruki by Ravenlock2006-11-19 12:55:59
  To distinguish... by Naruki2004-07-12 10:23:09
    And I think your characterization is wrong. by Ravenlock 2004-07-12 10:50:50
You were really doing great, until the last three paragraphs. The generalizations are a little broad, but they have to be when dealing with Christianity.
Sin and go to Hell forever. Be good and go to Heaven.
Here's where you're slipping up. This is not a message of the "majority" (what you seem to be dealing with) of Christianity.

I divided them into 3 "groups" to try to make it easier:

Group 1: Predestination. Our actions have no effect on the outcome - sin, or be good, you will go where you're destined.

Group 2: Salvation by Faith. As long as your faith is true, God will forgive just about any sin, and you can do as much good as you want but won't get into Heaven without true faith.

Group 3: Salvation by Works. Good deeds draw you closer to Heaven - evil deeds draw you closer to Hell.

Two of the three of those groups do not believe "sin and go to Hell, be good and go to Heaven." The third group does not, to my knowledge, exist in large numbers anymore - the most popular view I've seen in various Christian groups is a sort of

Group 4: Salvation by Works & Faith. This is the tenant behind Lutheranism, but really, almost all the Protestants I've met believe a form of this, and most of the Catholics. One should try to do good, but one will not succeed, and one will sin, because all men sin. God, however, has the power to forgive sin, and s/he who asks for it sincerely (and has not run around being willfully evil his whole life) will be granted it.

That is not nearly so simple as "Sin and go to Hell forever. Be good and go to Heaven." It is understood that a Christian will do bad things. One can, in theory, rob one's neighbor, and still end up in God's favor. Or kill a man in anger. Or <insert crime / sin here>. An act alone does not condemn or save you.

I see your argument. But your statements about the beliefs of "most" Christians do not represent "most" of Christianity as I know it in its current teaching.
[ Reply ]
      I probably ought to clarify... by Ravenlock2004-07-12 11:04:40
      s/3( \")/4\1/ ? ;) (n/t) by LionsPhil2004-07-12 11:10:12
        Ow, that hurt. by Ravenlock2004-07-12 11:27:00
          You said 3 groups. by Naruki2004-07-12 11:31:32
            Wow, what a useless reply. :-p by Ravenlock2004-07-12 11:42:00
              Doh! I'm sorry. :-( by Ravenlock2004-07-12 11:47:29
                ATTN UFIES! by Naruki2004-07-12 12:00:38
                  Thanks. You know I've got your back, too. ;-) (n/t by Ravenlock2004-07-12 12:12:10
            Yup. by LionsPhil2004-07-12 11:43:03
      Can anyone claim to speak for what by Naruki2004-07-12 11:57:33
        Attempt at answers. by Ravenlock2004-07-12 12:11:38
          Well... by Naruki2004-07-12 12:44:03
            Not "haven't thought about it." "Don't know." by Ravenlock2004-07-12 12:58:00
              What I meant was that you currently hold by Naruki2004-07-12 13:07:12
                *Shrug* I went through "Battleground God" by Ravenlock2004-07-12 14:09:19
                  Nobody *knows* the rules. So what? by Naruki2004-07-12 14:14:37
                    Why? by Ravenlock2004-07-12 14:27:49
                      The "He" for God is arbitrary, by the way. by Ravenlock2004-07-12 14:29:44
                        Maybe it's a canine gender. by Naruki2004-07-12 14:35:45
                          :-p (n/t) by Ravenlock2004-07-12 14:55:26
                      Ah... by Naruki2004-07-12 14:35:08
                        Sorry I didn't make it more clear. by Ravenlock2004-07-12 14:55:03
                          It's not inconsistent... by Naruki2004-07-12 14:58:19
                            You haven't stated... by Ravenlock2004-07-12 15:03:09
                              Didn't want to be redundant. by Naruki2004-07-12 15:23:58
                                Fair enough. :-p by Ravenlock2004-07-12 15:28:51
                                And you're probably right. by Ravenlock2004-07-12 15:29:40
                                Actually, one more clarification... by Ravenlock2004-07-12 15:39:33

 

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