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Separation of Church and State in the U.S.? by BuggedEyes2006-11-19 12:55:59
  Meaning of separation by piroufreek 2003-04-02 10:51:23
The intent of the Framers was that the government should not be in the business of setting a citizen's religion (see Church of England). It was a one-way screen in which a government should not interfere with one's right to freedom of religion, but that one's religion could and should figure prominently in how one interacts with government and those around them. Religion was prominent in personal life, and a representative government should reflect a country's personal morals. As you see from our Declaration and the Preamble, our Framer's believe that all humans were given by the Creator a set of inalienable rights. They believed that the US government should be built in such a way as to protect the free exercise of the rights of citizens. Our government was not meant to dictate religion. It was also not meant to be completely free of religion. Consent of the governed also includes the influences of the religions of the governed.

For reference, see the Federalist Papers, the Constitution, the Preamble, and the Declaration.

In recent days, we've gone too far to the other side. The government is now forbidding citizens from exercising their right to freedom of religion by prohibiting like-minded students from praying in schools, to prohibiting prayer before sporting events, and by trying to limit when people can exercise free religion.

I don't mind when someone doesn't pray, so why do they mind when I do?

I didn't start this thread, so don't blame me when it goes long.
[ Reply ]
    A *country* cannot have personal morals. (n/t) by world2003-04-02 10:52:06
      But the governed can n/t by piroufreek2003-04-02 10:53:10
        Then exercise them in private. by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 10:59:49
          Foundations of this country by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:07:57
            I'm good with it as long as I can add by rottweiler2003-04-02 11:13:54
            No difference? by Route2003-04-02 11:16:29
              Have you studied Islam? by adiplomat2003-04-02 11:20:28
                That's swell. by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 11:21:53
                  I was simply refuting the implication that by adiplomat2003-04-02 11:23:55
                I understand that. by Route2003-04-02 11:25:32
                  I have to install Oracle on Linux now. by Route2003-04-02 11:27:33
                    OK by biblethumper2003-04-02 11:40:51
                      Don't forget... by Spiff2003-04-02 11:52:16
                        YES!!! Thank you Brother Spiff!!! (n/t) by biblethumper2003-04-02 12:02:36
                          LOL by Route2003-04-02 16:27:12
              New? by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:27:27
                And you know what? by Route2003-04-02 11:29:26
                  Amen. (n/t) by SparkyR2003-04-02 15:03:07
                Proof that God does not exist! by Naruki2003-04-02 13:18:22
            What framed the Constitution by Route2003-04-02 11:20:10
              Christian faith in the Founding by piroufreek2003-04-02 12:03:32
                Likewise... by BuggedEyes2006-11-19 12:55:59
                ROFL! by Naruki2003-04-02 13:20:59
                  Wow! I missed That one! (n/t) by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 13:24:49
                  Now hold on a second... by BlurOfSerenity2003-04-02 13:36:55
                    Hee hee. by Naruki2003-04-02 14:22:01
            LOL! You're still full of caca. by Naruki2003-04-02 13:16:31
          by GOLLY, you are NOT stopping me by rottweiler2003-04-02 11:11:51
          In Private?!?! by desertrat662003-04-02 12:00:59
            ditto by rottweiler2003-04-02 12:11:48
              As long as it's not led by the teacher in prayer.. (n/t) by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:13:40
                Who cares who leads? by desertrat662003-04-02 12:16:22
                  Difference from a moment of silence... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:22:35
                    And if they were to seperate themselves by desertrat662003-04-02 12:25:58
                      As long as they weren't impinging on the rights by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:33:01
                        If it were during normal school hours by desertrat662003-04-02 12:48:42
                          So what is recess for? by LurkerMo2003-04-02 13:08:46
                            Unless of course by desertrat662003-04-02 13:13:40
                              hmmm...Reducing time in school would be popular! (n/t) by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 13:17:59
                              Reduce recess time to compensate for what? by LurkerMo2003-04-02 13:18:14
                                ummm.... BEER!!! (n/t) by desertrat662003-04-02 13:43:17
                If there is a prayer being led, by BloodyViking2003-04-02 13:11:10
            The pledge of allegiance is an oath to God. by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:12:57
              To which god??? by desertrat662003-04-02 12:24:12
                The actual pledge was instituted and lobbied for by rottweiler2003-04-02 12:31:35
                  You mean the revised pledge. by BloodyViking2003-04-02 13:09:08
                    Actually, that was the p*ssy Congress by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 13:45:01
                      Yes, but it was, at least in part, a response to by BloodyViking2003-04-02 13:49:37
                    right ... the "under God" line that upsets by rottweiler2003-04-02 13:48:06
          Actually, it is a bonus to you, isn't it? by LurkerMo2003-04-02 12:01:46
            No, I'm not. That's why it's stupid. (n/t) by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 12:30:12
              Would you feel it was less stupid if you were by LurkerMo2003-04-02 13:11:33
                How about if you swore upon your citizenship? by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 13:23:33
                  How about: by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 13:42:06
                    Well, that has so much less clout. by LurkerMo2003-04-02 13:52:45
                      Uh... I hope you mean taking an oath on a bible... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 13:54:07
                      Now, if somebody whipped out a stack of by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 13:59:27
        But the rights (or morals) of the majority by thewrongcrowd2006-11-19 12:55:59
          Deny? by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:09:47
            Hooey. by Route2003-04-02 11:14:58
              Other school wrongs by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:21:34
                By your own reasoning... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:23:35
                  Unfortunately by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:38:03
                    I agree that that's unfortunate. by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:46:48
                And which of these takes place on school time? by BloodyViking2003-04-02 11:28:04
                Quit twisting it. by Route2003-04-02 12:06:49
                  Nope by desertrat662003-04-02 12:12:32
              Is it? by desertrat662003-04-02 12:09:38
                Anyone can pray whenever they feel like it... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:15:51
            And the chicken wins. :D by thewrongcrowd2003-04-02 11:18:53
              Give that man a cigar! (n/t) by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 11:20:39
              Free exercise by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:55:40
                A point needs to be clarified by Nea2003-04-02 12:13:53
                  Ooo by piroufreek2003-04-02 12:23:13
                    *hammers sign into ground* by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 12:33:58
                      :::: sigh :::: by rottweiler2003-04-02 12:37:10
                        But at least hers has some merit. (n/t) by BloodyViking2003-04-02 12:42:33
                          I think both sides have merit. by rottweiler2003-04-02 12:44:21
                            I think what irks me most about piroufreek by BloodyViking2003-04-02 13:01:21
                            That's why religion should NOT be by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 13:01:53
                              and that is why by desertrat662003-04-02 13:10:34
                                I see no problem with a moment of silence by BloodyViking2003-04-02 13:13:11
                                *ahem* if I may interrupt. by LurkerMo2003-04-02 13:30:46
                    (probably the majority) by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:40:02
                    Let me try to make this clear. by BloodyViking2003-04-02 12:53:18
                    You can pray there. by Nea2003-04-02 13:47:11
            Then if I came to your house, and right before you by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:21:09
          cruelty to animals... by rottweiler2003-04-02 11:15:22
            Free exercise of religion. by thewrongcrowd2003-04-02 11:22:42
              sure.... go ahead... by rottweiler2003-04-02 11:27:35
                Hehehe. (n/t) by thewrongcrowd2003-04-02 11:30:13
    You are wrong. by Route2003-04-02 11:00:30
      Link by piroufreek2006-11-19 12:55:59
        So what? by Route2003-04-02 11:08:49
          Founders by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:11:20
            But they made it optional. by taIon2003-04-02 11:17:56
              Fair enough by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:35:43
                How about people's courtesy to other people by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 11:41:59
                  Denying by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:51:26
                    majority vs minority by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 12:00:24
                    Then you aren't looking. by BloodyViking2003-04-02 12:10:13
                  I have no idea by desertrat662003-04-02 12:58:21
            What you ignored by BloodyViking2003-04-02 11:23:19
              Declaration by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:33:29
                Hmmm.... precedence... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:44:19
                  You lost me (n/t) by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:47:13
                    Ok... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:57:03
                It is even more specific. It says *their* Creator by LurkerMo2003-04-02 13:39:51
                Wasn't Jefferson a Deist, thus, non Christian? (n/ (n/t) by the_excalabur2003-04-02 14:57:17
        That's the lovely thing about the founding fathers by thewrongcrowd2006-11-19 12:55:59
        I'll have some counter-links later. by Arcanum2006-11-19 12:55:59
          Absent? by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:23:26
            Linky by BuggedEyes2006-11-19 12:55:59
              Sources by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:30:48
                Rights come from the Creator. by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:38:39
                  Not at all by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:45:44
            "their Creator" not "the Creator" by NOLAWitch2003-04-02 11:26:04
              Okay by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:28:35
            Yes, absent. by Arcanum2003-04-02 11:36:51
              Points by piroufreek2003-04-02 11:42:10
                The fallacy of your logic... by BuggedEyes2006-11-19 12:55:59
                I should've been more clear. by Arcanum2003-04-02 12:50:49
    I don't mind if you pray. I don't mind ... by BuggedEyes2003-04-02 11:02:54

 

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