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Front Door Vistors by JedaiBesk2003-02-27 05:42:17
  Which is why you should always speak properly. by pecosdave2003-02-27 05:44:53
    slight correction by plblark2003-02-27 06:43:12
      Calling NOLAWitch... by Naruki2003-02-27 06:59:20
        It just bugs me a little is all... by plblark2003-02-27 07:05:14
          At a guess, I'd say the "Jesus Christ" part. ;-P by Naruki2003-02-27 07:13:20
            heh! by plblark2003-02-27 07:34:23
              I'd have to disagree on that first sentence by Egaeus2003-02-27 08:08:38
                well, yes, if it WERE the word of god directly by plblark2003-02-27 08:22:06
                  So then by Egaeus2003-02-27 08:34:34
                    I think His rules are plain enough by slacktime2003-02-27 08:57:53
                      Wait a minute by Egaeus2003-02-27 09:05:56
                        Oh I don't disagree by slacktime2003-02-27 09:14:51
                          I agree by Egaeus2003-02-27 09:31:19
                            Maybe this will help by slacktime2003-02-27 10:00:50
                              Not quite adequate by Egaeus2003-02-27 10:14:24
                                Maybe there is more to you by slacktime2006-11-19 12:55:59
                                But we keep coming to the question by Egaeus2003-02-27 10:47:53
                                so knowledge removes freedom? by slacktime2003-02-27 10:58:10
                                That's the crux of the longtime debate by Nea2003-02-27 11:22:56
                                The latter option doesn't fly. by Arcanum2003-02-27 11:44:34
                                Turn it around by Ston2003-02-27 12:28:05
                                Nope, still doesn't work. by Arcanum 2003-02-27 14:42:32
The plan itself causes certain interactions which add up to particular experiences for the poor puppets here on Earth. Our behaviors are still defined completely by our experiences and our nature, both of which were defined by God at the moment of creation. God Knew with absolute certainty what we would do under particular circumstances at the creation of the universe. This is not the "this will probably happen" kind of "knew" that most people refer to (and that many people in this discussion have used to justify the free will argument), this is the real McCoy, the complete, utter, absolute certainty of the precise effect of every action or interaction. With that kind of Knowledge combined with omnipotentence and the creation of everything, it makes God nothing more than a puppeteer. The puppet may be on very long strings (or rods, more like), but they are nonetheless there.
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