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Front Door Vistors by JedaiBesk2003-02-27 05:42:17
  Which is why you should always speak properly. by pecosdave2003-02-27 05:44:53
    slight correction by plblark2003-02-27 06:43:12
      Calling NOLAWitch... by Naruki2003-02-27 06:59:20
        It just bugs me a little is all... by plblark2003-02-27 07:05:14
          At a guess, I'd say the "Jesus Christ" part. ;-P by Naruki2003-02-27 07:13:20
            heh! by plblark2003-02-27 07:34:23
              I'd have to disagree on that first sentence by Egaeus2003-02-27 08:08:38
                well, yes, if it WERE the word of god directly by plblark2003-02-27 08:22:06
                  So then by Egaeus2003-02-27 08:34:34
                    I think His rules are plain enough by slacktime2003-02-27 08:57:53
                      Wait a minute by Egaeus2003-02-27 09:05:56
                        Oh I don't disagree by slacktime2003-02-27 09:14:51
                          I agree by Egaeus2003-02-27 09:31:19
                            Maybe this will help by slacktime2003-02-27 10:00:50
                              Not quite adequate by Egaeus2003-02-27 10:14:24
                                Maybe there is more to you by slacktime2006-11-19 12:55:59
                                But we keep coming to the question by Egaeus2003-02-27 10:47:53
                                so knowledge removes freedom? by slacktime2003-02-27 10:58:10
                                That's the crux of the longtime debate by Nea2003-02-27 11:22:56
                                The latter option doesn't fly. by Arcanum 2003-02-27 11:44:34
IF God didn't have an ultimate plan, it might. However, if God is omniscient, omnipotent, and has a Plan which He set in motion, then free will is impossible. Our decisions are products of our experiences. When God set the universe and His plan in motion, He (by virtue of being both omnipotent and omniscient) dictacted exactly what our experiences would be and thus what our "choices" would be. God effectively made all our "choices" for us.

This can be avoided by weakening the omniscience to the point where only general knowledge is available, not specific knowledge of individual events. Eliminating the Plan could also allow for free will, if we postulated that God threw a bunch of random variables into the universe when he created it. By the same token, weakening the omnipotence so that random, unalterable variables entered the system would also allow free will.

[ Reply ]
                                weakened omniscience by Egaeus2003-02-27 11:54:37
                                Yes. So is weakened omnipotence. :) by Arcanum2003-02-27 11:56:04
                                Turn it around by Ston2003-02-27 12:28:05
                                So he knows some things? by Egaeus2003-02-27 12:32:57
                                No by Ston2003-02-27 12:54:29
                                But if he knows the actions we will take by Egaeus2003-02-27 12:58:37
                                Because you're not getting it. by YakkoWarner2006-11-19 12:55:59
                                It didn't (n/t) by Egaeus2003-02-27 13:25:26
                                Nope, still doesn't work. by Arcanum2003-02-27 14:42:32

 

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